Severely Bummed -- Electircs again

[dpep]

My beloved 850 was down for a couple of months untill I eventually got all the parts and enough time together to put in a new Electrex stator, a new Elextrex RR, a new maintenance free battery and a new fuse box. I cleaned all the connections and grounds and ran copper from the battery case grounding point to the negative battery terminal. Instead of connectors I spliced and soldered the RR and stator wires together. I put it all back together, ran it up to 5000 rpm and there she held at 14.78-79. Allelulia. I took a short ride to the post office and back; perfect. I let it sit for a few days then yesterday I rode it a hundred miles or so with a couple of stops. Started right up every time; lights worked great; by golly I have finally got this thing sorted out. Well, you know what happened next.

Today I went out to ride, hit the starter button and it barely turns over a couple of times, then quits. Argh!!! I started it using a portable jump starter and checked the charging again; still 14.78 at 5000. After shutting down the bilke the battery checks at 12 +. But after I hit the starter button, there is a tired sound and it drops to 10. I am battery tending it now and it seems to be holding a charge.

I was so bummed at the time I couldn't decide if I was going to give up just GSs or motorcycles altogether. I had done everything I needed to do and I was still losing. That rage and self pity has now evolved into an obsession for having to know what it is that got me THIS time.

My most likely culprits at this point seem to me to be (1) a short in the starter circuit that wasn't there yesterday. (2) a bad battery even though it's new (3)something that drained the battery with the power off, again that would have had to occur since yesterday afternoon. Does anyone have any other possibilities to suggest?

Also, I want to test the flow from my disconnected positive battery lead to the pos terminal of my battery with the key off. Does anyone know what setting my mulitmeter should be on?

[Jethro]

Oh man, Don. I remember when you had problems on the ride to Maine and Mooshead lake. I wish I could help, but I am clueless on electrics. I'm learning, but have no idea generally. Please don't throw in the towel on this! We have to know!

[earlfor]

Re: Severely Bummed -- Electircs again

yep Don, the only thing I can think of is you have an electrical leak.
Disconnect the positive and negative terminals of your battery.
Plug your black multimeter lead into COM on the meter. Plug your red meter lead into 10A. Switch your meter to the A--- range and setting of 10A (yours may say 20m/10A) Place the meter probes in series between the battery + wire and the battery + terminal. Connect the negative terminal to ground as normal. That will measure any flow up to 10 amps.

Earl

Also, I want to test the flow from my disconnected positive battery lead to the pos terminal of my battery with the key off. Does anyone know what setting my mulitmeter should be on?

[Anonymous]

Hi
10 volts would be about right when the starter was actually operating and drawing power so I would suspect that all the work you did on your charging system is fine. How is the starter itself. Example. If its bearings are bad, the armature would physically drag against the pole pieces.
What would the battery voltage measure in the morning before any attempt to start the motor read? If it is low at that point, either there is an electrical leak or the battery is a defective. One fast but less than perfect method of finding the leak is to pull the fuses one by one while touching either battery cable to its home terminal and watching for a small or not so small spark. Spark means power is going somewhere. If the removal of a fuse stops this, you have found the circuit that is leaking.
I think that we should be able to economically solve this gs charging problem by intalling a "dummy load" in the system so that the extra power or at least a good portion of it could be bled off and disapated as heat therefore unloading the burden of extra power from the charging components but I digress.
Don

[Hoomgar]

I was also thinking starter motor Don. If it cranks OK when on the jump pack them maybe not but it still could be. Dirty or warn brushes will make the motor drag and seem like a dead or low battery. I learned that one from my Kaw.

[argonsagas]

Try Earl's advice for the possible leak. Worn brushes or dirty commutator in the starter would slow down the action, but I would look at the easiest thing first: re-check your ground connection(s).

[duaneage]

I think your dropping volts across the solenoid, or a crimp on connector somewhere.

You have one 10ga lead fro the battery to the solenoid, this wire has a smaller 12 ga lead that goes to the fusebox. Replace or inspect the connectors, solder with a 45 watt iron if necessary.

With the battery chargedup, try this test,

PLace the red + lead of your voltmeter on the battery + terminal, screw it down if you must but it has to be a good connection. Then place the black - lead on the terminal of the solenoid that runs to the starter. Select volts, 0 -15 or what ever you use to check the battery. before you start the engine you should read pretty close to battery voltage because the starter has very low sitting resistance. When you start the bike the voltage should be 0 zero nada zilch. If you see more than 1 volt then you have a bad solenoid, bad connector, bad lead wire, or all three.

This test will tell you , UNDER LOAD, what the resistance of the starting circuit is. It is actually called a conductance test. Ideally you should place the black lead on the starter itself, to check that length of wire as well.

Remember, under load devices can behave differently because of the high current used to start the bike, in excess of 25 amps or more.

One last thing, you worked on the fusebox so make sure the starting circuit and related switches and connectors are ok, you should see 12 volts on the yellow wire that activates the solenoid, low voltage there will prevent the field from fully closing the switch, leading to solenoid float and burnt contacts.

[duaneage]

Hi
One fast but less than perfect method of finding the leak is to pull the fuses one by one while touching either battery cable to its home terminal and watching for a small or not so small spark. Spark means power is going somewhere. If the removal of a fuse stops this, you have found the circuit that is leaking.
.
Don

Not to be too critical but this test with the power on could damage the ignition module of a transistor system, best to use a voltmeter connected as an ampmeter and read system appropriately.

[dpep]

I wanted to thank everyone for the good ideas and suggestions. I know the solution to my problem is contained in them. I have captured all the text in this thread and I will be methodically following it as I dig back in.

It occurred to me that I may have done great things for my charging circuit, I did nothing for my starter circuit, so I should probably replace everything there too.

This site is remarkable. I would not have had a prayer of keeping my GSs on the road without it in the last couple of years.

[DMPLATT]

Good luck Don.
I've not had starter problems on a bike before. However, I can relate to starters in cars. They've given me some strange things over the years. My favorite was similar to what you are describing. My brothers car. battery kept dying. We changed batteries and alternator (tested good). Finally he had to take it to the shop and somehow the starter was shorted and draining the battery overnight. Started fine when jumped though. Led me to believe the starter was fine.

Sounds like a similar situation for you.

Good Luck.

[earlfor]

hang in there Don, we're going to make you ride that bike regardless of whining and crying. :-) :-) :-) You'll get no sympathy from this group. LOL

Earl

I wanted to thank everyone for the good ideas and suggestions. I know the solution to my problem is contained in them. I have captured all the text in this thread and I will be methodically following it as I dig back in.

It occurred to me that I may have done great things for my charging circuit, I did nothing for my starter circuit, so I should probably replace everything there too.

This site is remarkable. I would not have had a prayer of keeping my GSs on the road without it in the last couple of years.

[Jethro]

Yeah, even if we have to mount pedals to that bike, you're riding it!