Aluminum flakes in the oil!

[Anonymous]

8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O

The patient in question is a 1981 Suzuki GS1100EX with 81,000 km on the clock. I was dumping last years oil after a 10 km ride and I found a lot of flecks in the oil filter and pan. I tested the flecks with a magnet to determine what they are, I'd say there is a trace of magnetic particles too. I had noted some dimples of missing metal on the cam lobes but no scoring. The shiny brown stuff is not likely metallic, I didn't see it before taking the photos.

oil pan

http://chat.carleton.ca/~srivett/GS1100EXdrain.jpg

filter

http://chat.carleton.ca/~srivett/GS1100EXfilter.jpg

Here's the patients history for the last 5000 km.
-parked in showroom for 6 months
-test driven by moi up to 160 km/hr briefly
-oil and filter changed with something cheap
-bike parked for 18 months
-oil and filter changed with Castrol 20w50 and Suzuki OEM
-discovered loose clutch hub, tightened
-3000 km of gentle riding while getting acquainted with each other
-new Barnett clutch, new Electrex stator, new oil and filter
-2000 km of tough riding, lots of time at top
speed in top gear, hit 11,000 RPM in neutral once
(redline is 9 grand), lots of redline or a bit above redline in lower gears
-parked for 7 months
-10 km ridden today, found the crap pictured below
-bike is now puffing after a gentle rev and then closure of the throttle, it used to take a really high rev to do that. Perhaps this is from being
parked for winter and will go away?

What should I do? I am going to order a new pan gasket and then pull oil pan off to clean it. The bike is designed to put out about 15 PSI of
oil pressure and the relief valve in the filter is so stiff that it is not possible to activate. Is this acceptable wear from an engine with
integrated gear box? I have not seen this stuff in the oil before with this bike or my GS400. The 1100 has roller bearings on the crank and they aren't making any noise. Bike pulls like a mother ***. How much longer does she have? Should I be securing a spare engine? I plan on
putting 20,000 km on her this summer. The clutch is between the crankshaft and transission so if I frag a transmission I'll be going down,
hard.

Thanks, Steve

[duaneage]

Just guessing but I suspect a piston. One of the jugs may be damaged and your looking at ring lands or piston skirt. Consider a rev limiter.

Driving it is not a great idea, The piston to bore clearance might get bigger and ruin the bores due to piston slap caused by a broken ring land. Honestly the only thing made of aluminum that could do this are the pistons or cam bearings. Everythng else glides on steel.

Find another engine, you may need bores and or pistons

[Anonymous]

Well, the good news is that you caught it before anything let loose. All those particles in the filter can't be good - you need to find the problem and fix it. A complete rebuild may be the cheapest way out.

The first thing I would do is check the compression. I would then start tearing into it a bit at a time, looking for wear. How about starting with the clutch assy - you said it was loose before. Is there any damage? Inspect it carefully.

Once the clutch is out, pull the oil pump and check the gears for wear. Pull the oil pan and see if there are any big pieces. Check the oil screen.

Go to the stator side and pull it and look for wear.

If you don't find anything take the valve cover off and inspect the cams. Pull a cap or 2 and check for wear. Pull the heads, etc., etc, etc.

I would keep tearing it apart until I found the problem.

As I said before, you may want to get a complete gasket and seal kit for a rebuild. There is no need to buy a donor motor until you know what the problem is. Find it and fix it. You'll have a nice fresh stomper.

[SqDancerLynn1]

I would take a close look at the aluminium clutch drum!

[Anonymous]

metal

i would check the clutch assm. first for any wear marks, the metal may be from it being loose, if none found then pull the pan and look in there before you just start taking things apart,

[Hap Call]

Follow Swanny's advice...

Hap

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the tips guys!

I just did a dry, warm, WOT compression test, here it is:
#1 - 130 PSI
#2 - 130 PSI
#3 - 125 PSI, checked twice
#4 - 145 PSI, checked twice

The valves were set 5000 km ago so should be within spec. The factory manual shows this compression test as okay, max spread is allowed to be 28 PSI, lowest compression is allowed to be 100 PSI. The spark plugs all looked okay and indicate my idle mixture is fine. When looking into the cylinders all I could see was black pistons so that is good too.

The next thing I am going to do is pull the clutch since I have a spare gasket and lock washer. What if I don't find anything? [-o<

Steve

[Jethro]

I had some alum. specs in my oil after I switched my clutch out. I was in denial about it, so I just ran the bike. Next time I changed the oil, no alum. Mine was more like dust though, yours look like flakes, bigger than mine. The only indication was the last teaspoon of oil dripping out of the filter assembly was more reflective than usual. It looked like matallic paint and the filter was as clean as could be. No alum. in there.

Please keep us posted as to your findings.

[Anonymous]

\/
It is a bunch of damaged clutch parts after all! The inner hub splines are worn out an extra 1/16 of an inch and the clutch drum was rubbing on the engine cases. Both of these problems were definately the result of the loose hub nut but I did not see the damaged splines last time I was in there. I did notice the rub marks on the drum but I thought that was part of the machining process. :roll: I now need a new clutch hub (plus conversion kit to newer model) and a new piece of piano wire. Thankfully the gearbox input shaft was spared.

Could somebody who has switched to the newer style inner hub please comment on what model year parts I am after? My dealer hasn't got anybody that would know. The bolts I removed have the spacers on them.

Thanks, Steve

Case rubbing area

http://chat.carleton.ca/~srivett/casedamage.jpg

Bad splines

http://chat.carleton.ca/~srivett/hubdamage.jpg

Worn drum, outer edge is sharp to the touch!

http://chat.carleton.ca/~srivett/drumdamage.jpg

EDIT: According to my 81 though 83 factory manual I need the following:
Clutch sleeve hub (the new one does use the spacers) - 21411-49203
Wave washer seat - 21471-49100
Piano Wire - 21481-45100
driven plate *9 (I already have new plates) - 21451-49200

[duaneage]

Re: Aluminum flakes in the oil!


-bike is now puffing after a gentle rev and then closure of the throttle, it used to take a really high rev to do that. Perhaps this is from being
parked for winter and will go away?


Did the clutch have anything to do with the smoke?

Glad for you I am it is not the engine, you should consider a rev limiter still

[Anonymous]

I agree that I need a rev limiter, I'll see what I can find that works with the stock ignition. With the 400 I could watch the tach while accelerating but not with the 1100.

Don't know about the smoke as of yet. It always did smoke when I came off the throttle at 200 when completing a pass. I should have done the valve seals last winter but I'm hoping it is just stuck oil rings from winter storage. The top end is definately coming off this winter because my headgasket drips oil after a hard run. I retorqued it to no avail.

Steve

[Sandy]

Yeah, the oil thing is probably slightly dry valve seals from sitting and should go away with some riding. Glad you found the other problem wasn't something internal. Just a flakey clutch (sic).

[Anonymous]

Wow, it is amazing how much Suzuki Bond can be held by the oil pickup screen! From now on I will be cleaning the screen whenever I buy a bike because it was really full. The metal screen was also really prickly because it had caught a lot of metal from my clutch. There wasn't really much of anything significant on the oil pan. Just a touch of black sludge that had caught some metal in it but no big deal. The bottom of the clutch area is actually about an inch above the oil pan so everything slides into the pickup screen area when you use the sidestand.

Problem solved, now it's time to put in the synthetic oil I was going to put in back when I found the metal in the filter.

Steve

[Anonymous]

some guy from this same forum says i cant install a rev limiter on my bike because i will blow the exaust right off by killing the ignition and reativating it when the engine dies to a certain rpm..he says the fuel will build up in my muffler

[SqDancerLynn1]

Give the people that post a break I vaguely remember the post A rev limiter is fine for it's intended purpose. The post made mention of using the rev limiter while stopped in netural to impress you friends?? So go ahead and do it. Just don't complain when the engine blows up