Fifth blown igniter in 500 miles

[isaac]

I'm starting to get pretty *@%^$*@%^$*@%^$*@%^$ed off at the bike. It's just blown the igniter for the 5th time.

What really bothers me about this is how randomly it's happened. The first time it was half a mile from my house coming back from a 5 mile ride. The second time it took a week before it went out on a shakedown run. The third one went out riding down my street a minute after I started it. The fourth one went out 30 seconds after lighting it up in my driveway.

This one went out 5 seconds after I lit my bike up in a parking lot 10 miles from home. It'd run fine for 2 weeks and 300 miles or so. 2 days after installing this most recent igniter the bike developed a hard starting problem. Sometimes it'd start within a few seconds. Sometimes it'd take 10 rounds of cranking it 30 seconds in a row to finally sputter to life after kicking randomly throughout the cranking time.

I'd fixed this temporarily once or twice in the two weeks since this began. Cleaning the carbs and replacing the plugs helped. It lit up immediately for a day after that. Then it was hard to start again. I synched the air screws on the carb, and once again it lit up quickly for a day afterward.

As of last night it didn't feel like starting again. I finally got it lit, rid it home, and did a charging test. At 5,000rpm the thing only put out 13.6 volts. Does this have anything to do with the hard starting? I have no idea. Every night I'd been putting the bike on the charger. It'd still act hard to start on a fresh charge, though it'd do better than later in the day.

So after cranking the living sh!t out of it today to get it started, it finally lit up, then died as I adjusted the choke seconds later. It would not relight. I tested for spark and had none on any cylinders. I opened the igniter and it burned my hand. Not shocked; burned. It had been hot like this before when it had failed.

Notes: Every time it'd blown an igniter, it blew the main fuse. The wiring in the bike doesn't look bad. Its all clean and unchafed. No melty looking wires.

The coils both show 4.5 ohms primary and around 31k ohms secondary. I traced the last blown igniter to a bad 1-4 coil with too few secondary ohms (it shorted out).

Despite seeing a "safe range" of 3-5 ohms, I'm still wondering if 4.5 is too much. I'm also wondering if the hard starting has anything to do with this, as it seems oddly coincidental that right after cranking the crap out of the bike for 10 minutes it blew out the igniter on both cylinder banks.

Battery is brand spanking new.

Help? I'm considering setting the bike on fire.

[feelergaugephil]

In reply

Get a BLACK wire and GROUND everything, R/R ground it to the frame.
Starter celanoid, ground that too.
It certainanly sounds like too much power outlet, the ground wire should cure it.
BY NO MEANS am I an electrician, I had a simular problem and the electric wizard guy ground everything, now fuses stay intact and it runs.

[RacingJake]

I think it's time to switch to a Dyna S ignition plate. it's the best 150 bucks your going to spend.

Now how much has those five oem box's cost you?? You can use them as paper weights or in my case my 30-06 could use a small target .

[Anonymous]

I think it's time to switch to a Dyna S ignition plate. it's the best 150 bucks your going to spend.

Now how much has those five oem box's cost you?? You can use them as paper weights or in my case my 30-06 could use a small target .

Not a bad idea on switching. I'd check into the grounding problem first so that you don't toast the Dyna. There is something definetely wrong and it doesn't seem to be the ignitor - not with 5 going out that fast.

[RacingJake]

I'd check the wiring from the pickups to the ignitor. Make sure the little metal retaining tabs under the engine has'nt cut into the wires.

[isaac]

I'd check the wiring from the pickups to the ignitor. Make sure the little metal retaining tabs under the engine has'nt cut into the wires.

Damn! that's a very good call. That'd ground the igniter the same way a bad coil would. That blew one of em already.

I added another 8 guage ground wire to the bike between the battery and the engine. Hopefully that helps.

Keep the ideas coming! Thanks!

[isaac]

I threw in two new main transistors and rode the bike around last night and this morning. After about 10 miles it blew one of the transistors while idling in my driveway as I was doing a charging test.

I had already gone buckwild adding grounds directly to the battery between the main electrics, engine, and direct from the regulator.

The charging test showed only 13 volts at 4,000. I bought a honda regulator today so we'll see if that helps.

Does low charging voltage kill igniters?

The coils both showed 5.6 ohms primary resistance when tested at the connector for the igniter. Tested directly at the coils they both showed 4.5 ohms. Is 5.6 ohms at the igniter too much, or is it expected that theres a 1 ohm resistance on the length of wire between the coils and the igniter?

[DMPLATT]

No help here, but a question?

Your '82 has the points and not the electronic ignition?

I thought they switched to electronic ingnition in 80 or 81?

[DMPLATT]

Reason I asked was the the 5 ohm coils are for points systems.
The 3 ohm coils are for the electronic ignition systems.

At least that's my understanding.

[Anonymous]

I threw in two new main transistors and rode the bike around last night and this morning. After about 10 miles it blew one of the transistors while idling in my driveway as I was doing a charging test.

I had already gone buckwild adding grounds directly to the battery between the main electrics, engine, and direct from the regulator.

The charging test showed only 13 volts at 4,000. I bought a honda regulator today so we'll see if that helps.

Does low charging voltage kill igniters?

The coils both showed 5.6 ohms primary resistance when tested at the connector for the igniter. Tested directly at the coils they both showed 4.5 ohms. Is 5.6 ohms at the igniter too much, or is it expected that theres a 1 ohm resistance on the length of wire between the coils and the igniter?

I wonder if you have a leaky diode in the regulator and you are putting some big voltage spikes out on the dc supply line.

[isaac]

Reason I asked was the the 5 ohm coils are for points systems.
The 3 ohm coils are for the electronic ignition systems.

At least that's my understanding.

Dave, the coils are technically the 3ohm coils, but they're also 23 years old, so they've grown some resistance since then. It is the full electronic ignition.

I'm just wondering if the additional 1.1 ohms (which added to the 4.5 ohms from the coils gives 5.6) that the wires between the coils and the igniter is giving is enough to fry the igniter. Maybe it is? I'm not sure if other people's electronic ignition bikes are like this, but I'd appreciate if somebody could check. I just unplugged the connector at the igniter and stuck the probes in there to get a full picture of how much coil resistance the igniter is seeing.

Swanny, about the leaky diode, does that stuff happen with these regulators? I don't know much about electronics other than to be able to swap transistors and do basic checking. I'll be relieved if the thing can hold onto some transistors after I fix this box again, but I won't know if it's for sure or not until maybe a month of riding, because the set of transistors Duane put into the box lasted 2 weeks before blowing, seemingly from the same problems that had only taken 30 seconds to eat the transistors before.

[Anonymous]

I've been wrong before, but the slight additional coil resistance doesn't seem like it would be destructive to the ignitor.

It sounds like you are getting some garbage on your regulated dc supply line that is playing havoc with the elcetronics. They are failing because they are overstressed.

Something I didn't ack before, are you replacing the ignitor boxes or repairing them. If you are repairing them, it may be possible that you are using a part that is in some way not up to spec. I might be ale to help find a better part if that is the case.

[Anonymous]

If the resistance of the coil is increasing, doesn't this actually reduce the load? or am I oversimplifying Ohm's law.

[isaac]

If the resistance of the coil is increasing, doesn't this actually reduce the load? or am I oversimplifying Ohm's law.

Yeah, that's how it "should" be but I don't know if less amps running through these things can somehow kill them...like using the wrong size light bulb in an underpowered fixture.

Anyway, Swanny, I've been replacing transistors...lots of them. The two that worked the longest came from Duane and were 80w, 60v, 8amp transistors. The ones I've been trying recently that have blown in 10 minutes are 65w, 60v, 8amp. I'm not sure what the minimums should be, but yes this should be a problem.

It doesn't change the fact that the two original boxes I had blow up still blew up with the right transistors. Those were likely taken out by the bad coil though.

[DMPLATT]

I'm no expert here, but if our bikes are designed for 3 ohm coils. And the older ignitions are designed for 5 ohm coils.

I'd be switching coils.

When I checked my coils out they were around 3.5ohms. They are 22 yrs. old. I did have a bad plug cap, but the coils were fine.


Again, I'm no expert, but 5+ ohms can't be a good thing.

You can get new Bandit or Katana coils on e-bay cheap. Do a search on that in the forum section. Something will come up.