Charging System Puzzle, I have tried everything> Help!

[Anonymous]

Have you checked or bypassed the ign switch

Thanks,
I don't know how to check it. I was thinking about trying to bypass it. From looking at the wiring diagram. It looks like if I hook the red wire to the orange wire it would bypass the ignition. But I don't really no if I am understanding the Igniton switch diagram correctly.
Any suggestion as how do check or bypass??

Thanks!!
Charlie

[earlfor]

Charley, if you have nothing on except the ignition and the headlight high beam at 5k rpm and you have 12.5 volts at your battery terminals, you have a faulty R/R. It would not matter if there is corrosion in any of the other circuits because there is no load on any of the other circuits since nothing is on.

Earl


[quote="LandscapeMan"]

Would you please put a multimeter on the battery with nothing other than the headlight and ignition powered and the high beam on and tell me what voltage you have at 5krpm? Earl

Earl,
Sorry if I was not clear.
12.5 v. as you described above:

14.9 with out the headlight and just the ignition.

--------------------------------------

Now upon further investigation:
If I unhook everthing except the ignition. And hook up 1 fog light directly to the battery ( no I DO NOT run a fog light on my bike).

I still get 12.5v. at 5K.

Which lead me to believe perhaps the over-draw is in ignition ciruit?

So I pulled the winjammer. Checked all connections in the "wire bag"
Everything was tip top except for 1 connection. There was some slight melt
on the connector to the red wire going into the ignition switch.

Looking at my manual this red wire appears to run to the 15 amp. fuse which I assume is the main ignition key circuit? As when I pull the fuse everything on the bike is dead.

Anyway I hard wired the red wire around the connector. But it did not improve the charging problem. So I am guessing there is still some high resistance some where in the ignition circuit and the melted connector was a sign of that. I also felt the afor mentioned 15 Amp fuse and it was warm and the other fuses cold.

So any ideas of how I can prove or disprove this theory? Or track down where the high resitance might be?

If all this makes no sence at all. Please forgive me and go back to the answer to your question and we can start from there.

Thanks,
Charlie

[Anonymous]

Thanks Earl,
Actually I did not state it correctly. As the tail lights were still on. Once I figure out how to disconect those, I will post back.

Just strange that both the Hon RR and the Electrix RR passed all the Suzuki tests that Billy Ricks had posted some time ago.

Oh well,
I am kind of at a loss here. I really don't want to go thru buying another RR and that not be the problem. (again)

Bummer,
Thanks,
Charlie

[Don Lobacz]

Even a few running lights can drag your voltage down to the lower part of the acceptable range. Isn't your headlight wattage also a little higher than stock?
What coils are you running? I worked on a bike that had a huge voltage loss and finally concluded that it was the Accel coils. They were replaced with Dyna 3.0 ohm coils and charging was fine.

[Anonymous]

Even a few running lights can drag your voltage down to the lower part of the acceptable range. Isn't your headlight wattage also a little higher than stock?
What coils are you running? I worked on a bike that had a huge voltage loss and finally concluded that it was the Accel coils. They were replaced with Dyna 3.0 ohm coils and charging was fine.

Yes,
I am running 80/100. But never had a problem in the past. Until this go around. And I am running pretty recent Dana coils. That were installed by a local motorcycle shop. I guess I will examine that wiring again.

So if the voltage loss you encountered was with the coils. Is it still possible that my votage drop is somehow in the ignition system circuit?

I can't seem to pin it down to the lights yet. But I really want to exhaust all possibilites before going with a new RR. It is just strange that I get exactly the same readings with the Hon and Electrix RR's. And they are completely in spec with out the addtional load of the headlight.

I am a total novice and a bit out in left field when it comes to this electrical stuff. But I do undersatnd a bit more with every problem I encounter and discuss. So I guess I can at least concider this a good education. Of course I really would like to get back to riding my bike instaed of working on it.
Thanks for the help.
Charlie

[earlfor]

A simple way is to remove the bulbs. :-) NO load equals no circuit.

Earl

Thanks Earl,
Actually I did not state it correctly. As the tail lights were still on. Once I figure out how to disconect those, I will post back.

Just strange that both the Hon RR and the Electrix RR passed all the Suzuki tests that Billy Ricks had posted some time ago.

Oh well,
I am kind of at a loss here. I really don't want to go thru buying another RR and that not be the problem. (again)

Bummer,
Thanks,
Charlie

[Anonymous]

[quote="earlfor"]A simple way is to remove the bulbs. :-) NO load equals no circuit.

Earl

Thanks Earl!
Well,
I feel a little foolish now. I was hunting around for wires to disconnect.
Pulling the bulbs. That I know how to do.

Hopefully I can get back to it in the daylight tomorrow. I will post back with results.
Charlie

[earlfor]

Also, if by chance you have a friend with a GS, and his charges normally, it is a easy swap to temporarily put your R/R on his bike and check and compare his charge level with his R/R and his charge level with your R/R.

Did you buy these replacement R/R's new, or used on ebay, or? I have found that with used R/R's, most people think that if it charges at all, it is good. That is not true.

Earl


Hopefully I can get back to it in the daylight tomorrow. I will post back with results.
Charlie[/quote]

[Anonymous]

Also, if by chance you have a friend with a GS, and his charges normally, it is a easy swap to temporarily put your R/R on his bike and check and compare his charge level with his R/R and his charge level with your R/R.

Did you buy these replacement R/R's new, or used on ebay, or? I have found that with used R/R's, most people think that if it charges at all, it is good. That is not true.

Earl


Hopefully I can get back to it in the daylight tomorrow. I will post back with results.
Charlie

[/quote]

Earl,

Well I am guessing it was about 10,000 miles ago that I bought a new Stator and New RR, both from Electrix. The Honda SH232-12. I got off Ebay. From Supposedly running CX 500 with 11,000 miles that was running and charging.

My theory was that I did not want to lay out another $125 for a new Electrix unit. And find out that the RR was not the cause of my problem.
Believe me. If I was sure that a new RR would solve the problem and be a lasting solution. I have no problem going with a new one.

Now the other question is why did my Electrix RR give up at 10,000 miles?
I would like to find or isolate the cause of that before I lay out another $125 and have that RR fry again.

That being said. This morning I pulled the taillight bulbs. I presume I don't have to pull the turnsignal bulbs as long as the turn signals are not turned on.

Hooked up my test Fog light load direct to the battery.
Charging still not up to spec.

I jumpered around the ignition switch.

Hooked up my test Fog light load direct to the battery.
Charging still not up to spec.

I pulled the tank / seat / fairing etc. Checking all the connections that I can get to. All I have checked so far have been clean and tight. No signs of overheating. No corrosion. As I mentioned before the only sign of heat was on the connector coming out of the ignition switch. I hard wired those.

I don't have a freind with a GS to switch out or compare. I wish I did.
And or have a new RR to try.

I guess I should just buy a new RR and see what happens.

Any way thanks for the help and support.

Charlie

[Anonymous]

Update:
I went through the Electrex Fault findind Flow chart.
Since I now have the Honda SH232-12 RR installed. I went to step B:

"Connect the Red multimeter lead to the batt. +
And the black mm lead to the switched + 12v input wire.
Leave engine idling. Switch on the lights."

>> more than .2v = bad connection from the batt. through the ign. switch to the + 12v supply input to the RR. Check the whole elctricle circuit. This is one of the most difficult faults to find. Suspect the ignition switch, the fuse box and it's connections". The RR thinks the voltage is is to low while the actuall voltage is correct or too high. Disconnect all terminals and clean them with contact cleaner. If you have fixed the problem, return to start.

My readings with new batt. fully charged @ 13.4v.

1. Idle with lights on: 2.1v
2. Idle with lights off: 1.4v
3. Engine off, key on, lights on: 1.6v
4. Engine off, key on, lights off: .8 v
5. Engine off, key on, kill switch off .4v

All the above with a 4 amp. charger on: Same readings.

I presume all of the above readings should not be above .2v?.

I have been through every connection that I can find. I hard wired several connections. Any that seemed to have any issues. One of the main 9 pin connectors under the tank started to crack when I took it apart. I removed the connector and hard wired. I used dielectric grease on all connections.

I have 3 ohm Dana coils installed in 2000.

One other observation:
When test riding: The charge rate would increase when accelarating under load. Not just turning higher RPMs. Just under load. The rate would fall off and level once speed was attained and cruising.

Any ideas, questions or suggestions?

Thanks,
Charlie

[gremlin]

try this warm up your bike shut off the bike. put the neg - led on the motor case ware its good and grounded.

disconnect the stator. put the positve + led, on each leg of the stator wires.

set the meter for contunety, or ohms. if it reads 0 ohms or beeps on contunety, you have a shorted out winding.

[Anonymous]

try this warm up your bike shut off the bike. put the neg - led on the motor case ware its good and grounded.

disconnect the stator. put the positve + led, on each leg of the stator wires.

set the meter for contunety, or ohms. if it reads 0 ohms or beeps on contunety, you have a shorted out winding.

Thank you very much for your reply!

So I am on the same page on the multimeter:
The lowest setting is 200/ then the o>>> symbol range
on the 200/ scale I got 1.1 ohms on each leg and it beeped.

Acording to the ELectrex Flow chart, if I have any reading lower than 100 omns the stator is dead.

But I then ran the voltage test 80 v. per leg every time. This was leading me to belive the stator is OK. Has anyone else had the situation where the volt readings are perfect but the stator was toast?

Please let me know. So I can order a stator from Electrex ASAP. BTW I did install a new Electrex Stator and RR bout 5 years back.

Oh well I bought a second Honda CM400 RR off ebay tonight. I should have a nice stock of them if the stator is shot and the RR's are fine.

Who be the best to buy the Stator from if these tests conclusively prove it is toast.

One last thing: Could the stator being shorted account for all the voltage drop I have been having i.e. to of page readings!

I am praying it is the stator so I can get it fixed once and for all.
Every other aspect of the bike is correct and running perfect. I want to ride!
Thanks,
Charlie

[jhw84]

Earl: Do you think that if he hooked up those aftermarket running lights in series, that may be the problem?

[Anonymous]

Earl: Do you think that if he hooked up those aftermarket running lights in series, that may be the problem?

Thanks for the idea!
What I have is 2 extra brake lights and 2 extra turn signals. As the brake and turn lights are very intermitant use. I don't believe they would be the extra draw. No running lights. Charged fine for the past 5 years.
Besides I can run with everything off and the charging is still not correct.

Any more ideas on the Stator? I got the Jones to ride bad!
Thanks,
Charlie

[Anonymous]

81 GS 850G low charging volts

I have a problem similar to yours I think. My Electrex Voltage regulator began to output about 1 volt lower than the normal 13.8 I usually see. No changes have been made and this VR has about 2000 miles and is 2 years old. My question : Is it possible that some of the components in the VR have failed, thus reducing the output. I checked the stock stator and at 5000 rpm I get about 75 vac between all three legs. VR output + direct batt and Ground to NEG batt.