Valve clearance measurement questions

[EZ OUT]

I have a 1982 GS 850 GL 50,000 miles.
I went through the valve clearance checking procedure in the Clymer Manual. Found that about 5 of the 8 valves were tighter than .004mm. 8O

QUESTION #1 - If I get a different measurement (larger gap) with the cam lobe facing away - sort of parallel to the cylinder vs. with it pointing straight up - which should I believe? This was asked in another thread but I couldn't find the answer.

QUESTION #2 - I didn't realize you should only rotate the engine in one direction ---oops I did. Did I screw something up? If I did it both ways , what should be done next?

QUESTION #3 - Has anyone ever sanded down their shims to get them smaller. Is this a really bad idea? A friend told me you could take a piece of glass and very find sandpaper with a little oil and gently sand the shim to the proper thickness. You measure it with a mic until its correct.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[ptm]

#1 - I would follow the procedure in the manual exactly. Even though it should be the same with the lobe in either position, it doesn't always seem to be the case. If you use the approved procedure consistently, you can't go wrong. On my '78 750 the procedure is:

----------------------------------
turn crank until
#1 exhaust cam lobe pointing forward parallel with the top of the head
- check #1 exhaust
- check #2 exhaust

rotate crank 180 degrees
#1 intake cam lobe pointing up perpendicular to the top of the head
- check #1 intake
- check #2 intake

rotate crank 180 degrees
#4 exhaust cam lobe pointing forward parallel to the top of the head
- check #3 exhaust
- check #4 exhaust

rotate crank 180 degrees
#4 intake came lobe pointing up perpendicular to the top of the head
- check #3 intake
- check #4 intake
----------------------------------

After adjusting them all, if any shims were replaced, rotate the crank several times and measure again. That will make sure the shim is fully seated and excess oil is out from under it.

#2 - I don't think it hurts anything, but it might affect measurements. Do the measurements only after turning it in the proper direction.

#3 - The shims are hardened, so it may take a bit of sanding. Also, even if you are careful it would be easy to get them slightly thinner on one side than on the other. The shims are not that expensive - some shops will trade stright across or give you a discount as long as the thickness number is still readable - so why try to shortcut. If you buy new ones each time, you will eventually build up a collection and not have to buy as many (or any) each time.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

EZ OUT, follow ptm's advice. I too have learned to follow the factory manual EXACTLY when adjusting the clearances.
You did check them on a stone cold motor, correct? The bike should sit overnight actually.

 

[EZ OUT]

Thanks for the replies fellas. \/
Yes I checked these on a bike that hasn't been run for about 4 days so it's cold.
Unfortunately, I don't have the factory manual - I'm using a Clymer, so I did not have a detailed procedure to follow like you've just outlined - so thanks, I will follow that method.
As for sanding the shims, I was more curious than anything else, I don't think I am going to try it. The nearest Suzuki shop to me doesn't even stock the shims, I am going to check out another one today. Last time I was in there, they said they had a box of 'em somewhere.

 

[ptm]

EZ OUT, follow ptm's advice.

Which was the advice I got from Keith when I had that same question.

 

[dgeorge]

Hi EZ Out, if you can't find the ones you need locally you can get them from here for about $5 a shim. http://www.crc2onlinecatalog.com/ if you've never been to this site click on enter then the shims are listed under "motor parts".

 

[EZ OUT]

Hi EZ Out, if you can't find the ones you need locally you can get them from here for about $5 a shim. http://www.crc2onlinecatalog.com/ if you've never been to this site click on enter then the shims are listed under "motor parts".

Hi George,
Thanks for the tip. Yes, I have dealt with these folks before and my experience was good. My hope is that I can get the ones I need from a local dealer so I won't have to wait too long to get her back on the road.
Of course, as luck would have it, the weather is finally breaking here. :roll:

 

[Poot]

when I did my valve clearance on my 850, I checked each valve when the lobe was pointing straight up (perpendicular) .



Is this an incorrect way to go about it??? :?

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

when I did my valve clearance on my 850, I checked each valve when the lobe was pointing straight up (perpendicular) .

Is this an incorrect way to go about it??? :?

Don't adjust the clearances that way. Do it the way the factory manual says to. It's much quicker and the measurements/adjustments seem to be more accurate. Don't ask me why.
Back in the 70's, I did my first valve clearance adjustment the way you did. I figured as long as the cam lobes pointed up or in the direction the manual showed, it was OK. I decided to do every single one with the lobe pointing up. After double checking my work, some of the measurements changed. I got spooked and decided to let the Suzuki shop check my work. I had 2 valves too tight. Ever since then I follow the factory procedure EXACTLY. After my double check, I never have found an error since. No more "changing" measurements, no problems.

 

[Poot]

yeah....i noticed that too.....


i ended up switching out shims 2 times ( i triple checked everything since I had the cover off on 3 seperate times....



I'm waiting for a new valve cover gasket, and am going to recheck again since i've been riding it for a little bit.




we should write clymers, and let them know that this gives innacurate info. If the factory way is better, thats what they should be publishing!!

 

[ptm]

Part of the reason for the confusion is that even the factory service manual states that you can take the measurement with the lobes either straight up or to the side, but then when they go through the step-by-step procedure (that is outlined above), they specify one or the other...

 

[crc1214]

For shims, I suggest trying a non-specific motorcycle shop, like "Doc's motorcycle repair" or similar. I trust those kind of shops ANY day over an authorized Suzuki shop (at least here in Columbus), and they actually have more old bikes coming through their doors.

Anyhow, they'll most likely have an abundance of shims and they'll most likely just let you swap them out for free.

MAKE SURE to specify they are SUZUKI shims.

Yamaha shims may look the same, but they will not work.

Good luck.

Chad

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

And Kawasaki shims don't work either. Suzuki shims are 29.5mm across. Kawasaki's are only 29mm. So if you buy at a Suzuki/Kawa dealer, double check.

 

[EZ OUT]

Valve adjustment successful

Valve adjustment successful

Just wanted to thank Keith and all who helped with advice on my valve adjustments. The bike runs great and idles now without the annoying stalling at stops.
I go some help getting old shims from Delzani Cycle in Rocky River, OH - Harley Shop 8O who had Suzuki GS shims!! at inexpensive prices =D> (You guys in Cleveland that also own a Harley - this guy's a class act, he spent more time with me than any Suzuki shop I've ever been to!)
Here's a tip I learned while repeatedly removing and inserting shims to find the right combo - use tweezers -- very easy to grab the shim vs. needle nose pliers.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Glad the bike is running good! Thanks for letting us know we helped .

 

[EZ OUT]

Thanks again Keith,
I also owe a debt of gratitude to PTM =D> - His valve measurement sequence chart was invaluable -- I think it deserves to be made a "stick"
Kevin

 

[ptm]

Glad I could help. It's a great feeling to get it running well. I started with a non-running bike last December and, with a whole lot of help from the folks here, I now have a sweet machine. 350 fun filled miles yesterday - the longest ride I've ever done.

Enjoy!

 

[Anonymous]

Whats the best way to remove and install shims? I tried pushing the outer ring down but it was really difficult.

 

[ptm]

You need a special tool. http://www.crc2onlinecatalog.com/tools.htm (scroll toward the botom in the "Shim Tools" section). It fits under the cam and sits on the bucket that the shim goes in. As you rotate the handle down, the ridge on the tool pushes the bucket down without pushing on the shim. That creates some clearance between the shim and the cam, so you can get the shim out. Then, as Kevin says, use tweezers to grab the shim and pull it out.