Question about RPMS off the line in first teaching newbie

[Anonymous]

Hi guys I have a question for you.

The 400L needs lots of RPMS to start off the line in first, it likes about 3500 rpms (ie: GAS/throttle), with a nice feathering of the clutch, gentle letoff rear brake to get a smooth start. Its not a big deal for me, cause I have found lots of the older Kawi's Suzi's etc are this way, and I don't drop the clutch. BTW its a dream to ride, everything is ace on it.

BUT, one of my girlfriends I am helping in her learning curve, HER bike will walk in first with no clutch/dropped clutch without stalling = so slow ride is really easy for her on IT. When she comes over to practice on my bike, she can't understand to rev it up to slow ride in first and feather the friction zone until it moves. Stalls it every time.

Changing the idle won't help, its idling correctly as it is.

So not sure what my question is, but I would like to make it easier for her. She does slaloums and slowspeed drills on the little road outside my house, she can't bring her bike over cause she is not confident in traffic yet. I think it is hard for her to think about all of it at once, nevermind having to baby the rpm's/giver gas in first.

Any help appreciated.

[Big T]

Practice,practise, practise

Not every bike she rides will be the same. Clutch control is a basic and necessary part of riding

Lack of clutch control was my #1 indicator to boot the student from my MSF class back when I used to instruct. Some people just can't ride a bike (not necessarily your GF) and don't belong on the street

Isn't there a MSF class near you she could attend? Worth every penny, considering how much it costs for parts to fix a dropped bike.

BTW, I sent my wife to the MSF rather than teach her myself.

[earlfor]

Re: Question about RPMS off the line in first teaching newbi

As you say, there is nothing wrong with your bike. Every bike is a bit different. A 400L likes a little rpm to get going and some clutch feathering.
It isnt a low rpm torque monster. I dont think there is any way to make the bike into something different. I think your best best is some explanations to your friend about clutch feathering and coordination throttle and clutch. She will have to learn that anyhow if she intends to ever ride anything other than the bike she now owns. At this point in her learning curve, if she cannot master using the clutch and throttle, she is making the right decision to not ride on the street. I would only let her ride my bike after she practiced with the clutch in a parking lot at low speed enough that I felt comfortable turning her loose with it.

Earl

Hi guys I have a question for you.

The 400L needs lots of RPMS to start off the line in first, it likes about 3500 rpms (ie: GAS/throttle), with a nice feathering of the clutch, gentle letoff rear brake to get a smooth start. Its not a big deal for me, cause I have found lots of the older Kawi's Suzi's etc are this way, and I don't drop the clutch. BTW its a dream to ride, everything is ace on it.

BUT, one of my girlfriends I am helping in her learning curve, HER bike will walk in first with no clutch/dropped clutch without stalling = so slow ride is really easy for her on IT. When she comes over to practice on my bike, she can't understand to rev it up to slow ride in first and feather the friction zone until it moves. Stalls it every time.

Changing the idle won't help, its idling correctly as it is.

So not sure what my question is, but I would like to make it easier for her. She does slaloums and slowspeed drills on the little road outside my house, she can't bring her bike over cause she is not confident in traffic yet. I think it is hard for her to think about all of it at once, nevermind having to baby the rpm's/giver gas in first.

Any help appreciated.

[Anonymous]

I always try to teach people that they don't need to give the bike/car any throttle. Then I show them it is possible. I just slowly let the clutch lever out and off I go. My 400 would do this too.

Steve

[Anonymous]

thanks

Its a long story, but we did try to get her into a course... (I took it so I really pushed it on her too) being between moves she can only make a one year wait list in the new town, and moved too early to qualify in the previous...so she wants to practice until she can at least pass the parking lot exam here mandatory for unsupervised riding.

I rode her bike over to my place, now she can practice by driving over via car here to ride her own machine Not that mine is priceless, buts its never been dropped. Well, she dropped hers 3x yesterday, minor slow speed drop. Followed by a 'forgot the brake and tried the clutch' panic, and a 'forgot there was a kickstand' drop But then again its a 550. She is actually doing really well on her own bike on slow speed course, figure 8's etc. We even did two stop signs on my street. And spent an hour in a nice big gridded, flat lot. She even rode back.


All in all she is doing really good. Unlike the last poster, my bike will NEVER move with just a slow release of the clutch, it will not move with no gas...suppose every machine is different!

Thanks guys, for the feedback.
Fawn

[gspaul]

Maybe it just need's a bit of adjustment in the idle mix dept, or a carb balance,I've had a few bikes of this capacity,and yes being careful you can take off with no throttle.
There is a small prob that's stoping you doing this.

[gspaul]

Just in case it's a US model,
if you still have those cap's installed over the idle mix screws,you know it's to lean.

.............................Ahhh the thing's you do when you can't sleep!

[Anonymous]

gs

hi and thanks for the tips Its a Canadian bike, btw.

Well a few things, I know its not running lean because I take it on LONG rides at highway speeds for hours at a time, very fast. I have no bogging or overheating problems whatsoever. It runs correctly in every gear, and every range has available power.

Also, The RPM's are in the correct range. Messing with the idle will only cause it to standing idle TOO high. I spoke to my mechanic about this previously, and he said it is totally normal for the bike to need a little gas to move, and that most small cc, heavier bikes with older engines do require it. He said it is in perfect condition, with no flaws in compression, tranny, carb or otherwise. only had 5000kms original and owned by a vintage collector does it!

Its not a big deal to me as I have ridden many bikes that do, my Yamaha rice rocket does NOT tho, its another bike that is hard to stall. Actually I was looking at a Suzuki m50, and I am in LOVE with that bike!

[Anonymous]

Practice is the real answer. I do have one question - does she know how to drive a manual transmission car? If not, then a few lessons on clutch control in a car might do her a world of good. Everyone I know who drove manual tranny cars had little trouble learning to ride. The ones who were auto tranny dependent struggled because they did not understand clutch control and how it affects acceleration. So maybe if you let her figure out a clutch in a car the bike would be less intimidating and overwhelming.

The good news - if she is a true motorcyclist she will keep at it until she gets it. If she is not, then at least you are doing your best to keep her from getting hurt while she figures out that it is not for her.


Mark

[KGB]

Find a nice big flat empty parking lot.

Have her, or you, start the bike,with all your gear on.
Squeeze in the clutch, out it in 1/st gear.
NO THROTTLE, start to eeeaaaasssee out the clutch, very slowly until you find the friction zone. Squeeze in the clutch. Puch the bike back a little until you're on your heels, toes pointing up, look staright ahead and again start to eeaaassseeee out the clutch very slowly, when you find the friction zone, squeeze the clutch back in. Look straight ahead, no need to look at your hand.
Do this 10-20 times, you have now found the friction zone, now add a little throttle after or as you find the friction zone. This will help for a smooth launch.

This is one of the exercises we do in the beginner course with the MSF.

[chrissinc]

These are all good tips. Another tip is to see how slow you can go in first gear and still pull away with the clutch let out. For example my GS750EF will still pull strong from a fast walking speed, so as long as I've achieved that speed using the clutch I can fully release it at that point. In fact I hardly need any "feathering" to get me going as by the time the clutch wants to fully engage I'm past the "bog out" zone. Try going as slow as possible and pull out of that bog zone so you know where it is, because 3500 to start out in does seem a little high. I just pull away with only slightly above idle I'm sure a 400 can do it too, your clutch will thank you for it! :-). Another tip is to see how low RPM you can pull away from and get some decent take off. With a 400cc twin you have 2 200cc cylinders pumping so you should have some decent torque.