Okay.. I'm an idiot!

[Ions001]

When I purchased my '80 GS1000G, I was told that after it runs for a while it begins to leak oil from the upper seal. So I've tried to watch the oil levels and make sure I don't damage the engine before I can make repairs. Well, the oil light came on while riding home from work. So I pulled into a gas station and put in about 1/2 quart of 10w-40. The rest of the ride home, I noticed the oil light would come on when idling or when I applied the clutch to change gears. I thought that perhaps I was much lower that I originally thought, and added another quart. Then the oil light stayed on. When I got home, after the bike had set for about 30 minutes, I noticed a small puddle of oil underneath (about 1/2 cups worth).

Did I just really screw something else up, or do you think I just worstened the upper seal issue? Are the appropriate parts required to fix an upper seal on this bike usually available at a parts store or will I have to order something on-line?

[Anonymous]

Did I just really screw something else up, or do you think I just worstened the upper seal issue?

Well, that's hard to say from here. But you have a couple of things going for you:

1) you know you had some oil in it and it ran OK (at least you never mentioned it struggling at all)
2) your crank uses rolling element bearings, whihc are a lot more tolerant of low oil conditions. In fact, too much oil is a bigger problem for them somewhat low oil is.

Overfilling will often cause some oil to pump out somewhere. Often, it comes out the breather, but a leaky seal would be another likely point.

Also, check your oil pump for the correct output pressure, it may be getting tired and that could have caused your oil light to come on. Unless you find that you really were pretty much out of oil, then that is the more likely cause... :? Also, check your oil pressure after you sort the leak, as gear pumps don't like to run dry and it may have got some damage from the low oil condition.


Mark

[Anonymous]

I've had the oil light come on a few times while idling my GS400E. When the oil level is down below MIN you will lose oil pressure at idle. The 400E has plain crank bearings and it didn't show any problems with being run low on oil a few times.

The parts you need will be readily available but not likely in stock unless by coincidence. You could get your Suzuki dealer to order them or you could mail-order them. Also, what is this "upper seal" you speak of?

Steve

[Ions001]

Upper Seal - that's how the gentleman who sold me the bike referred to it. If you follow the link below, I posted a pic in the album with an arrow pointing to where the oil is leaking from:

Pick of 'upper seal?'

[IanFrancisco]

The arrow in your pic is pointing in the general vicinity of the head gasket. Fairly major surgery to replace. The leak might be fixed or reduced by retorquing the head bolts, but be careful !! Snapping a head bolt is a major pain in the ***.

No one has mentioned the possiblility of the electrical connection to the oil pressure switch being intermittent.

I would change the oil and filter which needs doing once in a while anyway and put in the exact amount of oil recommended which should be stamped on the engine (mine is 2600ml or 2.6 liters or 2.75 quarts). Run the motor for a minute to fill up the filter, shut off and wait five or ten minutes for the oil to drain back into the sump and check the dipstick to see if it agrees with the amount stamped on the engine. Now you know you are not low on oil and have the exact amount in there that should be in there. Now is the time to address the oil light issue and find leaks. If the bike was overfilled with oil, and it sounds like it was if you added a quart and a 1/2, it will leak and possibly blow some seals but they will be bottom end seals like the clutch pushrod or crank main seals. If you were not riding the bike hard chances are it is just leaking from the breather, which is not a problem once you get the correct amount of oil in the bike.

Here is a handy link to a US/Metric conversion tool:

http://www.usa.ru/calc.html

Best wishes,

P.S When I changed my oil the first time I pinched the o-ring that is supposed to stop leaks from the filter. Ended up with an annoying drip (nothing major). The next oil/filter change I used a new o ring with some yellow rubber-cement-like/snot-like gasket sealer to hold it in place and help seal it up. Yahoo, no more drips. It feels good when you get the job done right the second time! (feels better if its right the first time, but stuff happens...)

[focus frenzy]

did you check the oil level before adding oil??

on that (and several other GS's) the clutch cable and oil pressure switch and wire run close together and sometimes the clutch cable rubs on the wire/plug till it rubs through the insulation/ jacket and shorts the wire for the oil pressure light making the light come on when there is not a oil pressure problem.
check and make sure the clutch cable is not making contact with the switch or wire and make sure the oil level is correct.

when you overfill the engine the excess oil will find a way out, often out the crank case vent to the air box and then out the drain hose for the air box, leaving a oil puddle under the engine.

also when the oil level is to high the crank shaft can whip the oil up into a frothy foam, the oil pump picks this up and you loose oil pressure.

[Redman]

When you are talking about the oil light and adding oil, you didnt say anything about what you saw in the oil level "window" (sight glass, level hole - whatever it might be called). You familiar with that?

[Ions001]

When you are talking about the oil light and adding oil, you didnt say anything about what you saw in the oil level "window" (sight glass, level hole - whatever it might be called). You familiar with that?

Yeah, but like the thread is titled... I'm an idiot! When I looked at the window, it was so dirty that I couldn't make out if there was any oil there or not.

I did some work on it over the weekend, changed the oil, and a friend helped me re-torque the heads. (terminology?) It seems that most of the oil was being spit up and out through the carbs, if that's possible. I just know the airbox was flooded with it. After we finished with everything, it started up and ran great. I'm going to take it out for about an hour ride tongiht to see how it does.

Thanks to everyone here for their insight and advice. This is really an outstanding message board! Hopefully as I gain experience / knowledge, I can return the favor.

[Anonymous]

It seems that most of the oil was being spit up and out through the carbs, if that's possible. I just know the airbox was flooded with it.

That won't be from your carbs, that is from the breather on top of the valve cover. It's output is routed back into the airbox because of emissions regulations and if your motor pukes a bit of blowby, it will make a disgusting mess in there.


Mark

[gsBert]

yes you are an idiot

1) clean your oil-level-checker-window
2) make sure your bike is level (lift it off the sidestand on a horizontal surface to make sure its upright) to check the oil level
3) if it's ok and your light still comes on (some smart guy mentioned a clutch cable problem shorting out the oil pressure sender and he's right, that kind of stuff does happen), check that your oil pump is working, but since youre a self proclaimed idiot, take it to a guy who knows.
4) the crank on some gs's is roller bearing mounted. that saved my arse and i was able to drive 25 kms with NO OIL. the system is forgiving,but NOT idiot proof, my cams had turned to mush, however i did make it home (i ended up replacing the whole engine, it was cheaper)

so basically: b4 you run the engine again, check ALL electrial connections. anything that doesnt look kosher should be fixed (even if its just the rear brake light switch)
get a quacking reading on your crankcase oil level (did i mention clean that window?)
if the level and the electricals are ok, start worrying, get a new oil pressure sending unit to make sure, but STOP RIDING THE BIKE. if your engine seizes on you at full speed in a curve, well, heres one thing i know for sure: you won't be able to reach the clutch in time to save a disastrous rear-wheel lockup followed shortly by a slow motion drop to the inside of the curve and a whole lot of frayed kevlar (you are wearing full protective gear right?)

[earlfor]

Re: yes you are an idiot

Heh heh, sounds like the voice of experience. Only takes once to create a lasting impression. LOL

Earl

STOP RIDING THE BIKE. if your engine seizes on you at full speed in a curve, well, heres one thing i know for sure: you won't be able to reach the clutch in time to save a disastrous rear-wheel lockup followed shortly by a slow motion drop to the inside of the curve and a whole lot of frayed kevlar (you are wearing full protective gear right?)

[Ions001]

Thanks to everyone for all of their information and advice. The bike is running like a champ now. I replace the air filter, cleaned the whole engine with a toothbrush and some diluted Simple Green, and polished up the chrome. I wanted to make sure that if there was any additional leakage, I would be able to see it. I ran the bike for 5 minutes, re-checked the oil level, added a small bit more to get it right between the min/max. Put on all my gear (helmet, jacket, gloves, boots.) and rode it for about an hour around town. After letting it cool down for little bit, examined the engine/exhaust with a fine tooth comb. No leaks!!!

Thanks again to everybody.

[highmileage]

Nobody has mentioned something that might not be obvious but he ought to check. He might be as lucky as I was.

One time, on my old Honda CB650-4 custom, I had the oil light come on, flickering at first and then staying on soon after I'd changed the oil.

When I checked the oil level and found that it wasn't low, I crapped in my pants (almost), thinking that the motor was toast and needed to be swapped out with the one in my parts bike (cheaper than a rebuild!)

After going through a lot of unnecessary major changes to figure out why my oil pressure might be too low, I figured out that my pressure was fine, it was the oil pressure idiot light's sending unit that went south! (On the Honda it was next to the countershaft sprocket.)

Swapped the sending unit with the one on my parts bike's motor and problem solved! It was easy to check things after the swap - with the motor running the light was off, hit the kill switch to cut off the motor and the light came on, just like it's supposed to.

I still have the bike and it still runs fine about five thousand miles later...

[gsBert]

i mentioned replacing the sending unit and that is indeed probably it.

but im puzzled here:

did he just say "thanks for the help my problem just magically went away" ??

hey dude! did you figure what was causing your oil light to light up?
we'd like to know so we know what to check for if we get the same problem.

[Ions001]

did he just say "thanks for the help my problem just magically went away" ??

hey dude! did you figure what was causing your oil light to light up?
we'd like to know so we know what to check for if we get the same problem.

No I didn't say anything of the kind. I said that I changed the oil, re-torqued the heads (the source of the original leak) cleaned up all the stains from the leak so any additional leakage would be seen. I then rode the bike for an hour, no light, no strange sounds, ran great.

As for why the oil light came on, unfortunately I don't know. My mechanical knowledge is very limited, but if someone would like me to check up on something, I'll be happy to. It's the least I could do for the help I've received!