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starter, rectifier or what?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anonymous
  • Start date Start date
A

Anonymous

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I had a problem with my 1980 GS850GL today. As I was heading to an event I stopped for gas. When I went to start my bike the only thing you heard was the solenoid click. I reached in and jiggled the post and wires to have it start right up. In investigating this in a brief manor as I was with an impatient group of harley people. I found the post loose on the solenoid. Ok I can jiggle the post to get it started. Well we left and on our way. As we went the dash gear lite was getting dim. Hit a bump and it was ok. Hit another it would dim. Ok go 23 miles and we all stop for the event for about 5 hours.
When we got back the bike solenoid would not even click. Ok it was an antique tractor show and I can find a solenoid there. Well I did just like the one on there. figured quickly change this get a jump and we'd be off. Well wrong again. I put the new solenoid on and got a jump to only have nothing. Crossed over the solenoid and got the click but nothing else. tried to buy pass it all together and not a thing out of the starter. Pushed it and we were off. As we headed home..my lights were dim and the dash lights dim.
after about 15 miles into the trip towards home hit a bump and dash gear indicator light came back one and I had turn signals. they were not a hundred percent bright but more than I had. I made it home. Got it into the garage and turned it off. I immediately tried to turn it over and nothing.

I will be looking at it sunday afternoon and hoping this forum can give me a place to head. I have a new heavy duty solenoid on now. If the recifier is shoot would that make the starter not turn over and keep from being about to by pass the solenoid and have power go directly to the starter?
Why could I push and pop the clutch to start and drive it 23 miles home? Why would the dash light dim and come back? Could this be a bad or shorted wire to the recifier?

Ok enough of my rambling and I will leave it to the experts here to send me in the right direction to solve this mystery.

thanks for the help inadvance. Cj
 
With any electrical problem !! First Charge the battery, then check the charging circuit. The voltage must be their at the correct voltage for the starter and other electrical items to work
 
Lights that dim and brighten would appear to be a loose connection, cheap and sometimes easy to fix. Look for that before you start buying parts or taking things apart.
 
There is no question...you have loose connectionS. That means more than one. Of course, it could also signal corrosion between terminal parts, or....more likely....it is both.

Suggestion : disassemble, clean, and reassemble as many connections as you can find. Use a di-electric paste/compound when reassembling to minimize future corrosion.

It appears your charging system is working, but loose connections can create havoc as they cause surges and excessive amperage draw, which furthers damages connections, and strains all electrical components.

It is VERY well worth your while to check it thoroughly, and do it right now.


Charge your battery fully, as Lynn has told you, then run your tests.
 
I would 3rd the recommendation to check all of your connections between your stator, r/r, solenoid, fusebox, all the way to the battery , and ground.


clean them well, and use some dielectric grease.



Also, as was mentioned, charge the battery for 24 hours, and then test the voltage before you put it back in the bike.



POOT
 
I 4th cleaning all connections and charging the battery but one thing you should check, I didn't, and I had the same problem. If the battery holds the charge for 12hrs then put the battery back in and hook everything up. Turn the key and check the Volts at the terminals. My battery would show charged but with the key on it would drop below 9 volts.

If the battery is bad then replace it before you t/s the electrical issue. I tried with what I "thought" was a good battery and I "thought" I had all sorts of problems. Battery replaced and she's been running fine. Ran Stator paper test and so far everything is running as it is supposed to.
 
Here is what I found today until I got too tired and confused.
I check all connections and cleaned them. I found a fried inline fuse so I replaced it. Then I found that the fuse box seem to have it problems. I had just gotten on off ebay for that just incase moment. So I replaced it. Well dash lights came up strong I got my headlight back, horn. Ok I thought I was on my way. went and hit the starter button to get a very good and strong click out of the solenoid AND nothing turned over BUT my turn signals came one. Like all four. No tail light but I have a brake light.
I check the turn signals with only the key on. and left turn I get oil light & neutral light is one and not turn signal indicator light. But the turnsignal is on and so are the others. Now if I right turn button I have the oil light, turnsignal indicator light but not blinking and my neutral light. Oh boy! So I started checking the fuse box and fuses. All is well until I remove the one for the turn signals. When I remove that fuse the whole bike is shutdown. Just as if you had removed the main fuse. Now I did not have this with the old fusebox but I also did not have my headlight and horn or dash that I have now.

After 5 hours I am so confused that I had to walk away.
Is it right to assume that this fuse box may not be a good one? Or is it that I have a live wire grounding somewhere and making a mess of things? Or is it both.

I was going to check the stator and charging system but I can not get the starter to engage with all this electrial problem which is no doubt why it does not start.

If I turn the key on and put a light tester on the one end of the solenoid that goes to the starter should it not light that its getting power? I do not have that.

I plan on starting this again after work tomorrwo and will keep checking to see what you all think. thanks cj
 
The fuse box is really simple, just a few connections for the fuses and a connector. If all the fuses are good, use a meter (did not see if you were using one yet) to check that there is power on BOTH sides of each fuse as you go down the line. Hook the black lead for the meter tightly to the - battery terminal.

Repeat - you need a volt meter to work this problem. troubleshooting without a meter is like reading in the dark.

The starter solenoid has a yellow and green wire that goes to teh start button, Use a short piece of wire to jumper from the + termnal of the battery to this yellow and green wire and see if the bike cranks, If it does the problem is in the bike wiring , If not it is the solenoid, starter, or those really big 10 gauge wires that go between them.

The solenoid nedds to be grounded. The metal case may have a short wire that goes to the frame. if not, make one from two terminals and a piece of wire to ground that solenoid.

Measure the voltage on the other terminal of the solenoid, should see 12 volts there when you engauge the solenoid .
 
I'm telln ya man try my steps with the battery. I spent a month going through the same "What I thought" was wrong and it probably is more simple then you thought.
 
I have one question since I am at work and not where the bike is.
If it was the battery would I not be able to jump it from another battery (such as my car)? When I broke down saturday a nice man tried to jump the bike but nothing but clicks from the solenoid (which is new). But we could push start it. why? Just trying to learn what does what. thanks
 
I ran my tests on the battery with and without a load. it was 12.89 volts. with load 12.34. so that is good. so I started running it on all the wires such as tail lights, brake, solenoid and etc. I got 12.34 to 12.54 on all with and without a load accept for the brake light and turn signals. I do not have a brake light coming on but I can tell its getting power so I must have a short or loose connection in my tail light -brake lite. Correct? and definately in the turn signals. I ran out of light or i would have run a continuity test.
If you push the starter button all four turn signals come on and pretty bright. but my tail and running lite are one but not stong.

I do have one question. I tested the solenoid to make sure it has power. I guess I do not understand how this works. you have your battery connected to one post, your starter switch to the small post and your starter to the other post. So if you have power into the solenoid from the battery, which I do and it was 12.84 and with the starter button engaged I have 12.34. so why do you not have power on the other end to the starter that would register on a volt meter or light a circuit tester? Even if I try to by pass the solenoid it only click and nothing else happens. Would the short/ground (?) problem draw enough out to keep the bike from starting?

thanks
 
IF you have nothing when you engage the solenoid it is probably bad.
A shorted starter would pull the battery down and that is not happening, If you jumper from the + terminal to the yellow green wire what happens?
 
cjexotic said:
I do have one question. I tested the solenoid to make sure it has power. I guess I do not understand how this works. you have your battery connected to one post, your starter switch to the small post and your starter to the other post. So if you have power into the solenoid from the battery, which I do and it was 12.84 and with the starter button engaged I have 12.34. so why do you not have power on the other end to the starter that would register on a volt meter or light a circuit tester? Even if I try to by pass the solenoid it only click and nothing else happens. Would the short/ground (?) problem draw enough out to keep the bike from starting?

thanks
Click to expand...

The solenoid is really a relay, like a horn uses. THe solenoid has a coil inside that has a resistance of about 130 ohms. It draws down the battery slightly and you are seeing that. The coil then creates a mnagnetic field that pulls a metal switch closed. This switch is capable of switching on the starter motor, the little start button on the bars could never handle the 10 amps needed to run that starter motor for very long.

Relax, you can use a solenoid for a lawn tractor available from Lowes or Homer Despot for about 12 bucks, half the cost of the dealer part. And it is easy to replace and test.
 
An observation based on work I did recently on an 82 GS850GLZ. The battery holder is supported on rubber mounts. The soliniod is "grounded" to the battery holder or "box". I took a peice of 8 guage wire, soldered some copper ring connectors to it. Shined them up. One side I attatched to the the solinoid mounting bolt on the right side, the other went right to the negitive on the battery. Painted the solinoid side with black nail polish to seal it up. End of clickin solinoid...

I can offer you a scan of the wiring diagram from Clymers third edition if you'd find it helpful.
PM me with your email.
 
Darkchyld said:
An observation based on work I did recently on an 82 GS850GLZ. The battery holder is supported on rubber mounts. The soliniod is "grounded" to the battery holder or "box". I took a peice of 8 guage wire, soldered some copper ring connectors to it. Shined them up. One side I attatched to the the solinoid mounting bolt on the right side, the other went right to the negitive on the battery. Painted the solinoid side with black nail polish to seal it up. End of clickin solinoid...

I can offer you a scan of the wiring diagram from Clymers third edition if you'd find it helpful.
PM me with your email.
Click to expand...

Darkchyld makes a good point with the ground. The PO of mine did this and I saw why after running some ground checks. Just to add to it would be to directly wire the R/R (-) and (+) directly to the battery terminals to save on any other resistance.
 
duaneage said:
The solenoid nedds to be grounded. The metal case may have a short wire that goes to the frame. if not, make one from two terminals and a piece of wire to ground that solenoid.
Click to expand...

I suggested this 2 days ago, still a good idea
 
Kinda a follow up note. That 850, when the owner refused to compensate my time on his bike, :evil: I removed that short peice of "grounding" wire. It left here with a "No Crank" condition.
Seems that ground is rather critical.
 
Just to add to it would be to directly wire the R/R (-) and (+) directly to the battery terminals to save on any other resistance.
Click to expand...

Ok I can do that but what do you do with the wire that the rr/+ was connected to? I am a blonde women and a bit confused. lol not dumb just confused. :lol: You are talking the regulator/rectifier correct. Right now I have it grounded to itself. It is not under the battery box as a couple years ago I had problem with it overheating and burning out. so I have it in the side cover kind of mounted to the frame with stainless steel braid.
 
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