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No O-rings on my CV carb fuel mixture screws?

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    No O-rings on my CV carb fuel mixture screws?

    A few weeks ago I posted my diagnosis of a rich-condition and resulting black-colored and fouled #4 spark plug in my 1980 GS1000G (with CV carbs),

    I believe that I solved that problem by discovering and replacing a bent float pin in #4 carb. That same day, I also replaced the float valve and seat assemblies on all four carbs, checked compression (150 +/- all four cylinders), checked ignition (good spark to all four plugs), and checked to make sure that the chokes were actually fully closed when the choke knob/cable was pushed in to the closed position. Also, a month ago, I cut back the coil wires about ?-inch to expose nice fresh copper wire and replaced all my plug caps with brand-new NGK caps (the correct impedance, 3 Ohms, if my memory serves me correctly). I synchronized the carbs with a Morgan Carb Tune, checked/adjusted valve shims, and checked the coils using an electric multi-meter following diagnostic directions posted by Earl Fornes and others on this website.

    In the past few weeks I have been trying to achieve the elusive desirable light gray to light tan color on all four spark plugs, by carefully adjusting the fuel mixture screws. (I am aware that I should check carb synch again, but that involves a friend?s time and synch tool, and I haven?t gotten around to that yet).

    The good news is that indeed, at the beginning of the fuel mixture fine-tuning process, I was able to achieve lighter spark plug insulator color (on all four cylinders) by turning the fuel mixture screws in (clockwise, looking down from above the carbs). I also noticed that the unburned/partly burned exhaust smell had gone away. All this made me feel good, thinking that I was actually accomplishing something and was acquiring more motorcycle mechanical skills, never mind that I could actually spend more time riding the motorcycle than fixing it!

    The bad news is that, over the past few weeks, I have had to adjust the screws leaner and leaner, yet all the plugs are slowly getting darker and darker. I have swapped plugs around, checked spark again, etc., etc. Right now, I have the fuel screws on #1 and #3 lightly seated all the way in, and the other two are around just one turn out from seated. From other peoples? posts on the GSR, I believe that ?normal? settings for these fuel mixture screws should be generally in the range of 1 ? to 2 ? turns out. So definitely, something?s wrong.

    Also, although the bike starts nice cold or hot (needs hardly any choke this time of year) and idles and runs nice, no misses or bogging, etc., there seems to be an increase in noise between 3000 rpm and 4000 rpm, particularly in 2nd and 3rd gear under light to moderate throttle settings. The noise is sort of a ?rattling? sound that I first thought was a loose component in my windshield or gauges or somewhere else. However, I screwed around with the shield and gauges and horn and tank mountings, etc. and I think I?ve ruled that stuff out. I?m now thinking it?s valve train noise.

    Another symptom is that I?m only getting 30 mpg with this bike, whereas I get 40 mpg riding the same way (speed, throttle, etc.) with my 1979 GS1000L that has VM carbs, K&N pods, Dynojet kit, and 4 into 1 pipe. Same rider, same commuting route to work, same 1000cc displacement; but 10 mpg difference in fuel economy!

    Last night, just as I was running out of motorcycle-fixing time before dinner and the end of my wife?s patience with me and motorcycles, I removed #1 mixture screw, and discovered that there is no rubber O-ring in the #1 fuel mixture screw assembly; just the screw, spring, and metal washer. At this time, I can only assume that there are no O-rings in the other carb fuel mixture assemblies.

    My questions are:

    Should a 1980 GS1000G have O-rings in the fuel mixture screw assemblies?

    If so, how would the absence of the O-rings affect my fuel mixture and resultant plug reads?

    Could it be that my bike originally had fuel mixture screw O-rings and that they have deteriorated into little particles and plugged something up inside the carbs (even though I?ve had the ####ing carbs off the bike and cleaned them three time in the last three months)?

    Any other ideas

    #2
    Answer to your 1st question: Yes, they should have o-rings.

    I'm no expert, but it would probably be the source of your problems, if there are no orings in your carbs.


    There should be o-rings on the idle-screw assembly, as well as 3 or 4 other places. Its a good idea to check out the carb-cleanup series, and note where they are (its on an 850, but the carbs are pretty similar if not same for 1000cc)


    You can get a set of o-rings from robert barr, who pretty much provides to everyone on the site. He has a website (just google his name) , or you can PM him as well.


    Hope this helps!


    POOT

    Comment


      #3
      All bets are off until you get new o-rings on those screws. I would check everything if you think they rotted away?

      Comment


        #4
        OK

        I'm playing hooky from work this morning, and my wife is at work, so I have had some uninterrupted time to work on my carbs.

        I pulled all 4 fuel mixture screws assemblies out of the carbs this morning (carbs still on bike), and contrary to my rough inspection yesterday, I found an O-ring in the #1 carb, and found an O-ring in each of the other carbs.

        All 4 screws look good, not blunt at the end, and all the springs, washers and O-rings look good too.

        I blew out the openings in the carbs lightly with compressed air, shot some carb cleaner from a spray can into the openings, and I will now re-assemble and re-install with brand-new O-rings from an extra set that I bought from Robert Barr.

        My concern is that nothing I saw this morning would be likely to cause my rich-condition and resulting dark spark plugs.

        I'm really, really getting frustrated with this problem.

        Comment


          #5
          If your screws are all the way in, and the engine is still idleing, it sounds to me like your main idle adjustment screw ( the big one under the #3 carb rear) is in too far, making the engine run in normal jetting, not the idle jetting. hence the reason your adjustments of the screws are not doing much for you.

          Comment


            #6
            OK

            The screw assemblies are back in, all at exactly one full turn out from lightly seated as an arbitrary starting point.

            I'm going out for a ride, and I'll check/adjust the main idle adjustment knob under #3 carb.

            I'm going to buy four brand new NGK B8ES plugs this afternoon and start my plug reads.

            Comment


              #7
              Update.

              I put the four dark spark plugs back in, and took the bike to Radio Shack to run an errand and warm the bike up for testing. The idle had dropped from 1100 rpm yesterday to 900 rpm today after the mixture screw service (thank you Tim).

              After that, I set the idle back to 1100 rpm with the main idle knob and went for a ride on the interstate highway at, ahem, rather high speeds in 4th and 5th gears, enough to get the throttle well up into the mid-range under load for at least 5-minutes. Then, I got off the interstate and onto a state highway, and rode at approximately the speed limit (45 to 50 mph in 4th gear) for two or three minutes until I saw a safe spot to chop the throttle and ignition and pull off the road and check the plugs. All four spark plugs had lightened up dramatically and all the insulators were in the range of light gray/tan to almost white. So, that?s the good news. Looks like my mid-circuit needle jet is OK and probably my main jet is OK (both are OEM stock).

              Then, I put the plugs back in and rode home on the back roads at about 30 to 45 mph in 3rd and 4th gears for about 5 minutes or so. I chopped the throttle and ignition just before my driveway, coasted in, and checked the plugs again. They had all gotten darker, to mid tan/light brown, in just 5 minutes on the back roads.

              I have checked my pilot jets and they are stock size. All the testing today was with each mixture screw exactly one full turn out (360 degrees) from lightly seated closed.

              What the h-ll is causing my plugs to get dark so quickly at low throttle settings?

              Comment


                #8
                Is your choke actually off when you have it in the off position? Air cleaner blocked or oiled to heavily? Mixture screws perhaps set too many turns out?

                The mixture screws on my 1150 are set about 3/4 turn out.

                Earl


                Originally posted by bgk
                Update.


                What the h-ll is causing my plugs to get dark so quickly at low throttle settings?
                Komorebi-The light filtering through the trees.

                I would rather sit on a pumpkin and have it all to myself than be crowded on a velvet cushion. H.D.T.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Definitely not getting air to the idle circuit somehow? Something is blocked somewhere?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    There are air jets in the front of the CV Carbs Intake Bell that must be cleaned as well so that the idle mixture is correct.

                    Comment

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