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GS wiring question

  • Thread starter Thread starter KrazyKarl02
  • Start date Start date
K

KrazyKarl02

Guest
Ok, so I sit and wonder about things a lot.... This question is open to anyone with an opinion... There are 3 wires coming out of a GS Stator, 2 of them go directly to the rectifier/regulator. One goes away, through a wire connection, then loops back down to the rectifier/regulator. Is there a purpose for this, why not just run all 3 wires directly to the rectifier/regulator?

-Karl
81 GS 1000G
 
The third wire is for the lights it runs up thru the light switch and back to the reg. This enables the third output line from the stator to be used only when the lights are turned on. I have wired mine direct to the reg.
 
In addition, I think that means you still have the stock regulator on the bike--i believe that the electrex regulates all three legs of the alternatr--I also believe thay my honda mod has 3 legs regulated as the electrex does-
 
US bikes don't have the light switch that the euro bikes have. It's a cost saving thing to use the same wiring harness. Eliminating that loop will prevent future problems with the electrics.

bill
 
I don't know if this has ever been asked before. but here goes, Why not connect all three yellow wires together before putting them into the r/r? What is the logic behind keeping them separate if they all go to the same unit?
 
Clone said:
I don't know if this has ever been asked before. but here goes, Why not connect all three yellow wires together before putting them into the r/r? What is the logic behind keeping them separate if they all go to the same unit?
Click to expand...

Maybe the size of the single diode that would be needed to take the heat was so large and expensive :?: and it is more than likely a full wave bridge of some sort.
 
Clone said:
I don't know if this has ever been asked before. but here goes, Why not connect all three yellow wires together before putting them into the r/r? What is the logic behind keeping them separate if they all go to the same unit?
Click to expand...

What ever you do, DO NOT DO THAT!!!! 8O 8O 8O 8O They are three different AC voltage sources and until they are rectified cannot be tied together without damage to the stator!!!! It will last about two revolutions before it burns ups!

It is a reasonable question, but please do not do it. What is going on is that your stator is sending out three different voltage levels. These levels are constantly changing from a voltage that is positive to a voltage that is negative. If you were to plot this level on a chart it would make a sine wave. Each different voltage (technically called a voltage phase) is always at a different voltage than the other two (except for a VERY brief moment when any two of the phases are at the same level because one is increasing voltage while the other is decreasing voltage). These phases are 120 degrees "out of phase" which means that if one phase is at the top of the sine wave the other two are 120 degrees ahead and 120 degrees behind.

Your rectifier/regulator does not care which phase is hooked up to which wire on the rectifier/regulator just as long as all three are hooked up.

Hap
 
Well, there you go. You never know the answer until you ask. Now for the follow up question. :idea: Since on the original r/r, the third leg was not regulated, causing multitudes of problems; on the Electrex unit all three are regulated; has suzuki corrected the initial problem on their subsequent r/r units? Or if it is not an Electex unit only two legs are still regulated? :? :? :?
Hap it seems you are the resident electronics engineer type guy what do you think?
I personally would kick my ass around the block if I designed the original unit.
 
Hap maybe you could add the explanation of the Three Yellow wires to the Stator papers. I don't recall reading that information in them. Also, I am probably not the first person to look at those three wires and think, "One big one is easier to route." If people knew the purpose maybe a mistake could be prevented.
 
Clone said:
Well, there you go. You never know the answer until you ask. Now for the follow up question. :idea: Since on the original r/r, the third leg was not regulated, causing multitudes of problems; on the Electrex unit all three are regulated; has suzuki corrected the initial problem on their subsequent r/r units? Or if it is not an Electex unit only two legs are still regulated? :? :? :?
Hap it seems you are the resident electronics engineer type guy what do you think?
I personally would kick my ass around the block if I designed the original unit.
Click to expand...

According to my factory shop manual, they began regulating all three phases on the '81 GS1100E. Now this does not get the '81 and later models out of the woods. The Suzuki rectifiers/regulators for the '70s and 80s are old technology that could not withstand the heat that the rectification and regulation process put out so they will eventually fail, especially if a load is placed on the system, either through additional electrical gadgets or because of increased resistance due to corrosion and poor grounds.


To make the old R/R last longer do the following:

1. clean all of your connections
2. insure you have clean, tight ground connections
3. Keep extra electrical equipment to a minimum.

To keep the stator alive and kicking do all of the above AND keep oil temperatures down in the crankcase since the stator is cooled by engine oil.

If you ever have to change either the stator and/or the R/R, I strongly recommend the Electrex stuff?it is better quality than the stock stuff and it costs tons less. The new Electrex stator is rated for a higher output than stock from what I understand.

Hap
 
jimcor said:
What happens when you plug your TV in backwords :?: :P
Click to expand...

Obviously, after about twenty years it will turn to black and white, 5 years later it will turn into a tube radio, then devolve into a book until it finally turns into a rock with scratch marks on it!

Hap
 
Hap, I'm curious about adding extra load to the charging system by adding accessories. Since the system uses a permanent magnet spinning around the stator to produce our electrical energy (AC Generator as opposed to an alternator that a car and more sophisticated motorcycles have), the actual output of the charging system, with a given magnet and stator, is based solely on RPM. As the RPM's go up and if there is no increased electrical load, the R/R gets rid of this excess as heat, thus probably shortening its life. I contend that if you add more electrical power using devices, the R/R would have less excess to get rid of, would run cooler, and maybe last longer.

I do agree with everything else (clean connections, cool oil for the stator, etc.) but low RPM's are the key to making this old technology last. Want to cruise fast, get an Electrex.
 
mcconnell said:
the actual output of the charging system, with a given magnet and stator, is based solely on RPM. As the RPM's go up and if there is no increased electrical load, the R/R gets rid of this excess as heat, thus probably shortening its life. I contend that if you add more electrical power using devices, the R/R would have less excess to get rid of, would run cooler, and maybe last longer.
Click to expand...

Conversly, If you have lots of "gadgets" but like me you don't ride all that hard and fast (high RPMs), the stator and R/R won't be able to keep up and you'll drain the battery.

I'm adding a cig. lighter adapter (waterproof) to Larry so that I can charge my cell phone in emergencies, but placing a higher load on a documented "wimpy" electrical system (whether the weakest link has been replaced or not) does not seem like a good idea.
 
Amp, I agree that you have to work within the capacity of the system. You wouldn't want to mount a 1,000 watt searchlight on the luggage rack and try to operate it.

What I'm getting to is that I wouldn't avoid putting electrical accessories on the system thinking that by doing so it would hurt the system (again, within reason). Remember, this electrical enery is produced whether you use it or not, so there is no extra load put on the charging system by adding accessories. If anything, using up the excess electrical energy anywhere besides the R/R would keep the R/R cooler and thus may allow it to last longer. I've never found the charging system to be 'wimpy' (not very strong), only unreliable, until I went to Electrex.
 
mcconnell said:
...this electrical enery is produced whether you use it or not, so there is no extra load put on the charging system by adding accessories. If anything, using up the excess electrical energy anywhere besides the R/R would keep the R/R cooler and thus may allow it to last longer...
Click to expand...

I see what you are trying to say but there are a couple of things that are not exactly correct in your assumptions. First, the electrical energy is not produced whether you need it or not. Remember, that there are two different ways to make a magnet, one is with permanent magnets (like the ones on the rotor), and the other is when you have a potential through a wound coil (like the coils in your stator). You have two electro-magnetic fields that are operating within your charging system, one fixed (the perm magnets) and one that changes due to the voltage level of the system (the wound coils of the stator). As the system voltage begins to rise due to positive voltage, the electro-magnetic field of the coils begins to rise until both field are at the same potential and the coils become magnetically "saturated". When this occurs there is no delta between the two fields so no current is produced.

At this point no current is being pulled to the battery until a load (lights, accessories, any electrical demand) is placed on the battery

Current is what causes heat in an electrical system, not potential. When you add additional stuff that pulls current then you add additional heat to the system. The more current you pull through the R/R and stator windings, the more heat produced, the faster the breakdown of both insulation systems and depletion layers in semi-conductors (transistors).

This is a very basic description of electro-magnetic fields...you get into stuff like electric flux, flux density, Coulomb's and Gauss's laws...stuff that requires a good understanding of integral and differential calculus and some vector analysis. The basic statement is that no net energy is exchanged if a charge is moved about a closed path, returning to its initial position. This occurs when two magnetic fields are at the same strength.

My head hurts, I need to stop now. :?

Hap
 
Let's revisit the idea of putting a cpu fan on the r/r, that keeps the temperature down there. So it should last longer. Right? Then about the idea of adding more load, how would that help keep WHAT?[/size] :? I understand what you said, but I am not an electrical guy, if it is mechanical, has moving parts to remove and MAKE BETTER :lol: (you know "If it ain't broke I can probably still fix it."). But man it is hard to remove and improve those electrons. :wink:
 
ok, I got you Hap, you were writing while I was trying to understand. Now I do. More draw/load=more heat in the stator and the r/r. 8) What about the cpu fan? I don't think they draw a lot. What would keep the stator cooler? :? I can't turn off the light, no switch. So I can't reduce the load, :( the only increase would be: brake light, high beam and signal light operation. Do their operation create that much more heat? I see guys with two halogen lights mounted on their case guards, that is an increased load. 8O
 
Clone said:
ok, I got you Hap, you were writing while I was trying to understand. Now I do. More draw/load=more heat in the stator and the r/r. 8) What about the cpu fan? I don't think they draw a lot. What would keep the stator cooler? :? I can't turn off the light, no switch. So I can't reduce the load, :( the only increase would be: brake light, high beam and signal light operation. Do their operation create that much more heat? I see guys with two halogen lights mounted on their case guards, that is an increased load. 8O
Click to expand...

That is good thinking...keeping stuff cool is the way to go. A CPU fan may be an excellent way to go. The new Electrex stuff will also handle the heat MUCH better and can probably handle additional load. The size of the Electrex R/R is much larger than the stock unit giving it more cooling area and the electronics on the inside have got to be better than the old stuff. If you have a motor that appears to run hot, the addition of an oil cooler will help both the motor and the stator live a longer more productive life!

I obviously like the Electrex stuff...I do not like their explanation on why the old stuff fails.

Looking back on my previous explanation I think I did a poor job of explaining it...I apologize!


Hap
 
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