Sometimes trouble downshifting into 1st

[astehn]

Hi all,

I'd say that more often than not, my bike downshifts into 1st without a problem. And all the other gears, going up or down shift fine. But about 1/3rd of the time I just can't downshift into 1st. I've messed a lot with the free play of the clutch lever, but nothing seems to work, and the cable seems like it's pretty new, so I don't think that's the problem. I tried adjusting my techinique to make sure that I always go all the way down into first while I'm still rolling a bit, but I still have the same problem. Then I'm stuck at a standstill in 2nd, and no matter what I do (no matter how hard I push, and even if I rock the bike back and forth a little to get the gears to line up right) I can't get it into 1st--there's no give at all in the shift pedal.

I read another post http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...ight=1st+shift and tried putting the bike on it's centerstand to test things out. With the clutch in and the bike in 1st, I can stop the rear wheel without much trouble, so it seems like the clutch is disengaging properly. The only other suggestion in this post was to check the tension on the drivetrain, but doesn't apply to my 850 shafty. I also read somewhere that it might be caused by the idle speed, but my idle is set at around 1000.

So I'm at a loss, especially since much of time it shifts perfectly, and with it up on the centerstand, I can shift through all the gears, occasionally have to spin the back wheel a few inches. I do have two thoughts:

1) What are the chances that I could fix it if I switched oil? When I got the bike a few months ago, it seemed to shift fine, but the oil was pretty black, so I changed oil and filter and put in Castrol GTX 10W-40. I didn't ride it enough before the oil change to really know if the old black oil exhibited the shifting problem, but I'd hate to dump my new oil to buy synthetic oil, and just have the same problem.

2) My petcock was leaking a little, but when I changed the oil, I didn't really see any gray (that's what color the gas would show up as right?), just old black oil. So I figured I didn't get any gas into the clutch area. But if I did, how could I go about cleaning it? Or would changing the oil have taken care of it?

Or it might be something entirely different. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your help,
Alex

[redliner1973]

If this happens with a Hot engine, than yes, a change to differnt brand of oil may help. Synthetic or Dino, it really makes no difference. Some engines just seem to like certain oils better than other types.

If it is just a random occurance, regardless of temps, then you may have a deeper problem, suchas a worn clutch basket causing drag, or worse case, clutch forks worn or bent.

[scotty]

try reving it a speck whrn going for first--The oil usually solves that problem though.. a multi viscosity with a lower number than 20. i like the 5-50- and 15-50 synthetics.

[Clone]

Some bikes don't shift down to first well, they tend to find neutral and need a second tap down to first. My bike is like this 1-2 is ok, 2-1 rarely happens I get 2-N. changing the oil is a good suggestion.
Oil will look grey if it has water in it. Not gas. It will just smell gassy and be thinner, just as black though. If your oil is grey, shouldn't happen on an air cooled motor, but if it does, you have a lot of condensation in your engine or water is leaking in when you wash it or from rain.

[The Pagan]

Hi buddy,
Like Scotty says give it a 'fist full' when changing down, keeping the revs up make for a smooth gear change. If you pull up in 2nd and find it hard to engage 1st, blip the throttle and she will slip right in. The Pagan

[astehn]

So I went to Wally World, and bought some Rotella 15W-40. After the oil change, it's like I imagined the whole problem. A world of difference between the Castrol GTX, and the Rotella. It's a mystery to me why certain bikes like certain oils better, but I'm happy that mine likes the $7 a gallon kind. I'll keep the throttle trick in mind if it acts up again.

Thanks for your help.

[gliscameria]

Same deal

I have the same problem.

If I have it in neutral, give it a rev or two with the clutch out, then try, it seems to shift fine.

Does yours also shift into neutral when you're trying to get into second if you aren't really cranking it? I guess it's 'did it' now. =)

[mystere]

I have a 850 and I have sometime the same problem. But it appear to me that the rpm is very important to get in first speed smoothly. When I am still rolling slowly to come to a full rest I get from 2 to 1 by pressing the clutch quick-rev the engine just above 1000 and while engine begin to rev down I shift in 1... like a knife in butter. I found too, that when I am at rest on Neutral and my engine is "cold", my idle rpm is a little low (750-850) causing the first speed to engage ruffly. And when my engine is "hot", my idle speed is higher around 900-1000 giving me a smooth engagement in 1. In all case, the first gear utility is to start moving the bike (or car), not to "stop" the bike (normaly!). So the first gear is supposed to be engaged at normal idle RPM (around 900). I had drive many bike and manual car and found the same "difficulty" to get in 1 while still rolling or idle rpm be too low. I think that the fact is that the first gear is unsynchronised (or if you prefer synchronized to idle RPM= 0 MPH!), because you start from rest,so you must drive the first gear like a unsynchronized transmission (like old car or heavy truck, etc.) but maybe someone else can confirm that?!

[mystere]

I just did check in my bike manual for idle speed adjustement:
1979-1980 models .....850 to 1050 RPM
1981-on models.....950 to 1150 RPM
So this explain why I had difficulty to engage first gear from neutral!
I have a GS850GL 83...I just did readjuste my idle speed to 1050 RPM and now it run great...maybe I should read my manual more often!!!

[duaneage]

I dropped Mobile 1 0W 40 in last summer and shifting cold was gretly improved.

[gliscameria]

Mechanic

I talked to my mechanic about this...

He said Suzuki's have an issue with second gear with wear and tear. I can't remember the exact problem.

A more viscious oil will remedy the problem, or simply letting out the clutch a hair.

[Road_Clam]

Hi all,

I'd say that more often than not, my bike downshifts into 1st without a problem. And all the other gears, going up or down shift fine. But about 1/3rd of the time I just can't downshift into 1st. I've messed a lot with the free play of the clutch lever, but nothing seems to work, and the cable seems like it's pretty new, so I don't think that's the problem. I tried adjusting my techinique to make sure that I always go all the way down into first while I'm still rolling a bit, but I still have the same problem. Then I'm stuck at a standstill in 2nd, and no matter what I do (no matter how hard I push, and even if I rock the bike back and forth a little to get the gears to line up right) I can't get it into 1st--there's no give at all in the shift pedal.

I read another post http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...ight=1st+shift and tried putting the bike on it's centerstand to test things out. With the clutch in and the bike in 1st, I can stop the rear wheel without much trouble, so it seems like the clutch is disengaging properly. The only other suggestion in this post was to check the tension on the drivetrain, but doesn't apply to my 850 shafty. I also read somewhere that it might be caused by the idle speed, but my idle is set at around 1000.

So I'm at a loss, especially since much of time it shifts perfectly, and with it up on the centerstand, I can shift through all the gears, occasionally have to spin the back wheel a few inches. I do have two thoughts:

1) What are the chances that I could fix it if I switched oil? When I got the bike a few months ago, it seemed to shift fine, but the oil was pretty black, so I changed oil and filter and put in Castrol GTX 10W-40. I didn't ride it enough before the oil change to really know if the old black oil exhibited the shifting problem, but I'd hate to dump my new oil to buy synthetic oil, and just have the same problem.

2) My petcock was leaking a little, but when I changed the oil, I didn't really see any gray (that's what color the gas would show up as right?), just old black oil. So I figured I didn't get any gas into the clutch area. But if I did, how could I go about cleaning it? Or would changing the oil have taken care of it?

Or it might be something entirely different. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your help,
Alex

Heres some thoughts from my experiences. My opinion is if your problem is clutch related you shifting behavior will be the same in all gears, not just first, so I personally would rule out clutch and or cable. The fact you only experience this problem ocassionally, and only going down into first tells me you have some type of mechanical internal issue. I am thinking you have a bent shift fork, or a worn out shift drum, or the shift drum support bearing. IMO changing oil isn't going to do squat. When you have clutch issues, then sometimes changing oils does produce different results.
Try a "double clutch" when down shifting. Pull the clutch, shift into nuetral, let the clutch back out (to rotate the gears a bit), pull the clutch back in, and try to shift into first. There also could possible be a gall on the main shaft where the 1st sliding gear resides, causing the gear to not smoothly slide.

[riskadh]

I don't have quite that problem, I usually can't get it into neutral. Takes a few times of shifting to hit it, but that is usually no big deal.