Need Advice on Starting Issues with cleaned Carb.

[countzen]

Hello all,

I have posted here before cleaning out my carbureator. Anyway, I am at the last step where I put everything back together, start it, balance the carbs and ride away!

Hopefully you guys can help me out again with advice, the past ideas and advices have helped out a lot.

The subject: 1981 GS550L:

• -Battery if FULLY charged via external battery charger.
  -The starters cranks the engine
  -There is fuel in the Carburetor, checked via loosening the floatbowl screw on the bottom. (At one point, i guess i put too much in and fuel leaked out of the float bowl.)
  -It's been sitting in the garage w/o seat, Carb., fuel tank for ~1 or 2 months.
  -Cleaned out carb, cleaned out fuel tank (of rust) with new manifold boots, and new fuel line.

So here's the problem:

• It won't start without starter fluid sprayed into the air intake. And when I do, ~1 min later it slowly goes lower and lower in RPM until it dies. (After the inital 4000-5000 rpm surge from starter fluid) (It tends to last a little longer if the bikes been warmed up a bit from previous starts)
  
  Also, when I play with the throttle to try to keep the RPM up, it HARDLY responds, w/ about 2-5 sec delay before anything happens. Once, it just made different engine noise on open throttle without increasing RPMs.

No weird colored smoke, No extra smell of gas (i.e flooded engine).

Only thing I haven't checked was the spark plug and compression, 'cause I don't have the tools for that, yet. I was about to use "Put your thumb over the hole, to see if 100psi was coming through" technique. But I figuered if it starts and runs for a little bit, with starter fluid, the spark and compression should be fine. (??)

Sorry for the long winded post, I am soooooo close with lots-o-mistakes and learning along the way. This problem has me totally clueless.

[IanFrancisco]

Are all carb bowls full of fuel? Are the float levels set correctly? If not the bike won't run even with gas in the bowls. Your problem may be incorrect float levels. Even with gas in the bowls the bike will not run without starter fluid and it dies after the starter fluid is burned off. Don't even bother with spark and compression at this point as there is enough of both to run the bike on starter fluid. You keep saying "carb" as if you only have one. This bike should have 4 carbs if I'm not mistaken.

If the float levels are set correctly the petcock may be clogged and you don't have sufficient flow to keep enough fuel in the bowls. Try "Reserve" or PRI (prime). Does your bike have a vacuum petcock or the old-school 3-position on-off-reserve type of petcock?

[countzen]

Hiya!

THanks for your reply!

Yes you are right, it's a Vaccum-Constant-Velocity Careburetor, 4 of them.

And yes all 4 float bowls have fuel in them.

As for the petcock, i have re built it, and there's suffcient fuel flow... and I was keeping it on Prime, without the vaccum attached. (Ya know, so that the bowls fill up... How long can a bike run on just fuel in float bowls?) It's the vaccum style with On, Reserve, and Prime.

Could the engine have flooded?

I am not sure about float levels.... what is that? It does have new needles and O-rings. I wanted to get it running so I can balance the carbs.....

[NotSoFast]

Is your choke engaging properly?

[countzen]

Yeah, I cleaned out the cable (with cableLife!), and I can see the choke on the carb moving perperly.

Suprisly, with the Choke totally open, (Pulled all the way out), it doesn't start all that well with starter fluid. and dies quickly. When I close the carb, it maintains the running on starter fluid longer.

Is that normal? Does that apply to this problem at all?

[IanFrancisco]

I am not sure about float levels.... what is that? It does have new needles and O-rings. I wanted to get it running so I can balance the carbs.....

When you cleaned the carbs, did you pull them off and at least partially disassemble them? If not there may be small passageways clogged and also the pinholes on the emulsifier tubes. Float level refers to setting the floats in the bowls to the correct measurement so the the level of fuel in the bowls is correct. This is a fairly critical measurement and the bike will run lean or rich or not at all if it is off. Go to this link:

http://www.thegsresources.com/gs_carbrebuild.htm

And read all about it. It's a lot of work but it's not rocket science. Just be slow and careful when working on carbs or any part of the bike for that matter. Making sure your bike is truly roadworthy is pretty important because your life is on the line when you ride. Not only are you at the mercy of your bike and your own foolishness, you are also at the mercy of semi-comatose drivers in cars and trucks. Having your attention drawn away from the road because something is not right about your bike is NOT safe.

[countzen]

Actually I did take it apart, cleaned out all the rust (from tank) inside and all the needles. (Carb Cleaner--that stuff is Nasty!).

I replaced what i can, which were the needles, the rubber O-Rings. I lubed up the main center thing with some white lithum grease for smoother movment. I armor-all-ed the diaphragm to make it last longer. (No Cracks)

I took out the small brass jets and cleaned those out where I could. Air blower and such, and the carb cleaner soak.

On all 4 carbs.

BUUUT I did not adjust the float levels... i just assumed it would be fine as long i didn't disturb the previous settings.

Could that be really killing this? Anyway to check without taking the whole thing apart again? (oh the nightmare!)

I have the airfilter off for now... could that be part of it?

[IanFrancisco]

Actually I did take it apart, cleaned out all the rust (from tank) inside and all the needles. (Carb Cleaner--that stuff is Nasty!).

I replaced what i can, which were the needles, the rubber O-Rings. I lubed up the main center thing with some white lithum grease for smoother movment. I armor-all-ed the diaphragm to make it last longer. (No Cracks)

I took out the small brass jets and cleaned those out where I could. Air blower and such, and the carb cleaner soak.

On all 4 carbs.

BUUUT I did not adjust the float levels... i just assumed it would be fine as long i didn't disturb the previous settings.

Could that be really killing this? Anyway to check without taking the whole thing apart again? (oh the nightmare!)

I have the airfilter off for now... could that be part of it?

Yes, these bikes need the airbox and filter installed to get the correct airflow going thru the carbs.

[countzen]

Ok Thanks! I will try that tonight-- get the airfilter on and try again.

Maybe it'll run better.

Thanks for the Advice, I shall try and report back.

Would this explain the lack of throttle control too? Ehhh one problem at a time.

[countzen]

I tried to start with the airfilter on... it seems to sustain the running more, but I still can't seem to seem to get it started under its own power... Always have to use the starting fluid....

Any other tests I could run that would help me figure things out?

[countzen]

Totally Confused and frustrated, please help.

Please Help?

I been trying to run through the Clymer repair manual, and I am 100% sure fuel is going into the carb.

Is there something I should do with the Air screw?

I haven't checked SparkPlug or Compression yet, I'll tonight. Can a bike run with bad compression/minimal spark with starting fluid?

I am starting to regret taking on this carb. cleaning jon on my own.

Any ideas?

Sorry folks, i am getting kinda desperate. I know there's fuel sitting in the float bowl....

I'll try to post any pics I can tonight.

[IanFrancisco]

The air screws should be approx. 1.5 to 2.5 turns out from lightly seated. If the float levels are reasonably close it should run on it's own. If compression or spark were bad it wouldn't run on starter fluid either. Read the carb cleaning pages on this site. I put a link in my previous post. Also try fresh gas. Gas that's been sitting a week or more may be stale. Or put some Stabil in the gas, which is also recommended if the bike has to sit a week or more without running.

Good luck getting the bike going. Don't give up, but don't be desperate either. Persist, educate yourself and impose your will on your uncooperative carbs.

[countzen]

Hey thanks for the advice on fresh gas, I just realized I have been using gas that ~1 month old, from a plastic container. I thought it looked fine, color wise, but i guess it couldn't hurt.

I will try that and the air screw too. It's at 1.5 turns right now, so I'll try 2.5.

Thanks again!

Hopefully I'll have this running again soon. :?

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Sounds like you disturbed the throttle valves during cleaning.
Before doing a vacuum tool synch, you must do a decent BENCH synch or the bike will not start easily/at all. Do this first.
Then the mixture screws should be set about 2 turns out to allow starting. Turn up the idle adjuster enough to allow the bike to start.
Once the bike is warmed up fully, adjust the mixture screws for best idle and lower the idle to about 1,000 rpm's after adjusting each carb/mixture screw.
Then do your vacuum tool synch.
If this still doesn't help, check for intake leaks, loose clamps, carbs not "popped" all the way into their manifolds.
Just because others have done this...have you plugged the vacuum line or the vacuum port while trying to start the bike?

[countzen]

Thanks for information... I am a total newbie at this, so you might be correct in thinking i am Making all these mistakes.

And no, i didn't have vaccum tube on... until i put the tank back on. (explained below.)

Anyway, yesterday I got new fuel. It immediately smelled different from the old fuel. And once I drained the float bowls, and the gas tank and replaced with the new fuel, it ran longer. Easier response on the throttle while it's running.

However, I still had to use starting fluid, and it died after a while, just like previously.

I tried taking out one of the Spark plugs, it looks carbon-fouled (I think, i have attached photo links.)... what does that mean? (It made pretty good sparks tough. )

http://www.flickr.com/photos/countzen/62203977/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/countzen/62203979/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/countzen/62203978/

Also once it got warmed up it wouldn't last long at all, it would start rev high due to starter fluid, then die right after.

At one point I was SOOOO sure that it was working good that i put the gas tank back on--- and I was wrong.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/countzen/62203982/

Oh, and anyone got an idea what this is?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/countzen/62203983/

What is a BENCH Synch? And I am not so sure wha ta throttle Valve is either.... How do I do this Bench Synch?

Sorry for all these insesent questions.... I am such newbie at this, and I am so close to riding this bike again.