Temporary fuel tank lining while painting outside of tank?

[bgk]

This winter, I?m going to have my fuel tank repainted at a body shop, which will require draining the tank and leaving it at the body shop for a week or so.

I?d like to protect the interior of the tank from rusting while it?s empty, but I don?t want to use Kreem or POR-15 if I don?t have to.

I was thinking of spraying the interior with Marine Fogging Oil from an aerosol can.

Any other ideas for temporary rust protection?

[Macmatic]

Maybe slosh a cup of kero around the inside? I'd guess that would give you protection for a little while and not need cleaning out once you were done. I think the small amount of kero film in the tank wouldn't give you problems if you filled up with gas when you got it back.

In winter in New England it bound to be pretty dry most of the time anyway so I doubt you need heavy duty protection....wiser heads may have other things to say.

/\/\ac

[Jethro]

I store my 81 1100E tank by spraying fogging oil in there every few weeks. I keep it sealed up between sprays. The tank is still crystal clear after a year or so.

[renobruce]

Paint and oil don't mix. Your painter will probably appreciate you not putting any oils or silicones inside. It causes fish eye in paint. Maybe pack some rags or socks inside. Ask the painter to keep the openings taped up as much as possible to avoid humidity.

[bgk]

Renobruce,

The fogging oil will go inside the tank, and the paint will go on the outside of the tank.

The petcock and fuel filler inlet will be masked-off with masking tape, so there will be a barrier between the inside and the outside of the tank

The outside will be sanded and cleaned before painting.

How could the fogging oil inside the tank result in ?fisheye? in the paint on the outside of the tank?

[renobruce]

Renobruce,
The fogging oil will go inside the tank, and the paint will go on the outside of the tank.

I'm aware of that. I sell, install and service automotive, industrial and truck spray booths and powdercoat ovens for a living. I also get paid to find sources of contamination found in painting applications (fish eye problems and particulate).

If you are taking your parts to a modern facility (which I highly recommend), they will be using a spray and bake type paint booth. They will apply the paint/clear coat at between 70-90 degrees and cure (bake) your paint job at between 140-190 degrees. You won't be able to seal or mask off the openings during the bake cycle due to the pressure that will build up inside the tank. The masking tape will vent and you will expose the atmosphere to fumes and/or oil. I have seen fish eye from diesel fumes generated 1/4 mile away. If the shop's booth is not heated, then you may be OK. But make sure everything stays completely sealed until after the paint has cured.

[duaneage]

I think it would be easier to remove any light flash corrosion after it is painted then to try and prevent it with oils. Keep the tank capped and leve him the key. He'll remove it to do the job and then can replace it when he is done.

You can remove the rust later with vinegar or mek or whatever method you prefer, if there is any.

[GS750]

Why dont you just get some of them silica gel bags that come in medical tablet packages and electrical goods?

[bradleymaynar]

Why dont you just get some of them silica gel bags that come in medical tablet packages and electrical goods?

Dessicate packs. That may not be a bad idea if you are that concerned about rust.

Brad tt

[bgk]

Thank you all for your responses, particularly renobruce?s explanation of the paint/bake process and the resultant venting of fumes from inside the tank to outside.

I never cease to be amazed at the excellent info I learn on this website.

As a result of learning this, I visited the body shop today, the same shop that painted my bike a year ago.

First, a little bit of history about the paint job on my bike, and my current need to repaint, which is very frustrating (sorry, long post):

I bought the bike two years ago. I only paid $250 for the bike, which was in rough shape when I got it (and didn?t have a title, which I eventually tracked down and bought for another $50). Other than the usual mechanical/electrical issues that I have more or less learned to fix myself (leaking gaskets and seals, dirty and poorly adjusted carbs, burned-out regulator/rectifier and stator, etc.), the cosmetics were a mess.

The fuel tank was dented deeply in one area and had multiple smaller dents and scratches, the side covers were intact but in primer paint, and the front and rear fenders were different colors (from different bikes).

I first visited the body shop on a referral from a mutual friend, and the guy quoted me $300 to repair all the dents in the tank, and prep and paint the tank, both side covers and both fenders; including all labor, materials and paint. He had some nice metal-flake deep dark blue paint left over from a Corvette painting job (so he said), that suited me fine. (I asked for blue because my other GS 1000 is blue and I only have one license plate and registration and ? well you get the picture!).

I was fine with the deal, but I just asked one question: ?Does the price include a clear coat finish coat?? He responded: ?You don?t need clear coat with these modern automotive paints.?

So anyway, last winter I had him paint the bike. The result was beautiful. Gorgeous, glossy deep blue with a slight metal flake if you looked real close. I was a very happy camper. But within a couple of weeks during the riding season, I noticed that the paint was sort of ?bubbling? at the edges of the fuel filler neck, but was fine everywhere else. I became super careful filling the tank from then on (I had been typically careful before, anyway) but the problem continued, and even got a little worse.

Then, a month ago (November), I was out riding on a cold day (about 40 degrees F) and filled my tank at a gas station just two miles from my house. I rode the bike straight home from the gas station and parked it in my basement garage. (The garage is typically warmer than the outside air during cold days in New England. But, I typically fill the tank after a long ride, and I?ve never had a problem doing that, and I believe that it?s better to have a full tank than a near-empty one to prevent rust inside the tank.)

The next day, my wife said: ?The house smells like gas?. I went downstairs, and discovered that the gas in the tank had expanded and a whole lot had flowed out of the gas cap, all over the tank, the engine, and the floor. Most of that beautiful paint on the tank had turned into a blistered, wrinkled mess. I was frick?n heartbroken.

So, I go back to the body shop a few weeks ago, and I told the guy about the wrinkled paint, and said that I thought that this was a result of not using clear coat. He responded: ?What are you talking about? I always use clear coat.? I explained that that?s the opposite of what he told me a year ago, and he sort of got a sheepish look on his face. I didn?t want to have a confrontation with him, and I said: ?OK, never mind, I just want to fix the tank now, so I don?t have to look at this ugly wrinkled mess of a tank when I ride.?

So he says, ?OK, you sand it, and I?ll paint it. I?ll take care of you.? (We didn?t talk about any price.) Then he sent me to a to-the-trade auto body supply store that has a computerized camera. I took one of the side covers in and they took a picture with the camera system, which printed-out a formula for new paint to match. That little trip cost me $60 to buy one pint of paint!!! ($20 camera charge, plus $40 for the paint)

So today, after learning from renobruce about ?paint and bake?, I go back to the body shop. I learn that this guy paints and cures at regular room temperature. He says: ?Those paint and bake places are high-volume places where they do a few cars a day, and they need to get ?em in and out of the booth quick. Paint cures better and stronger when it cures over a longer period of time at room temperature?.

So now, I?m totally confused, and I?m in somewhat of an uncomfortable situation with this guy. If I push him a little bit, I could get the tank repainted for free (after I sand and prep it, which I don?t mind doing).

My questions are:

Should I have this guy paint my tank for free, or should I blow him off and spend money to have the tank painted at a shop that bakes the paint to cure it? (As usual with a GS restoration, I?m already into this bike for more money than it is worth)

What should I know that I probably don?t know about properly sanding and prepping the tank before delivering it to the shop, regardless of which shop I choose? (For instance, there?s probably Bondo under the paint in a few places, and I don?t want to screw up the previous repair work and make a mess for myself.)

Thanks in advance for your responses.

[crc1214]

Well, first of all- if this guy had any record keeping skills at all he'd be able to go back and tell you the exact type of paint and ratio of metal flake that he used for your paint job.

But anyhow - I'd check the better business bureau in your neck of the woods and look for some reputable body shops or maybe even motorcycle-specific paint shops that are on the list - I wouldn't give the tank back to this guy.

Ask to see previous finished examples from the next shop you go to, and maybe even ask if you could contact a few of their previous customers to see how they liked the service and their paint jobs.

A good place will WANT to offer this kind of info to you - bragging rights!

Oh hey - BTW.... I wouldn't mess with sanding it. Just bring it to the new shop and they'll be able to discuss options with you. I would bet that most shops wouldn't want you to sand it. That's a pretty important prep item that has a direct effect on the finished product quality - they'll insist to do it themselves I'm sure.

[renobruce]

OK, here goes.... I'll try and help where I can. I wish I lived next door to you so that I could look at the paint job in person.

?You don?t need clear coat with these modern automotive paints.?
?What are you talking about? I always use clear coat.?

Automotive paints are typically either single stage, two stage (basecoat/clearcoat), or three stage (base/pearl/clear). Single stage does not have a clear, but is formulated not to need it. It is used alot on commercial vehicles (UPS vans, etc.) and often to duplicate the old lacquer type finishes. The other two types are used on most modern vehicles. So he didn't answer your question. What type of paint was used?

The reason the paint blistered and came off was most likely due to improper prepping PRIOR TO painting. The paint would have eventually come off your bike... you just speeded up the process by spilling gas on it. Does the paint on your car fall off when you spill gas on it? A good painter using good materials can duplicate a factory finish and it will last just as long. There is a saying in this industry: "A perfect paint job is 90% preparation and 10% application" Very true.

"Paint cures better and stronger when it cures over a longer period of time at room temperature?.

Not true. The fact is today's paints are designed for heated booths since the majority of repair shops use heated booths. But by using different reducers and/or excellerators and a different "cure speed" of clearcoat, the painter can compensate for a non-heated environment. If applied properly, there is no better and stronger cure either way. But in a heated spray/bake booth, your parts can come out of the booth in less than an hour. In a non-heated booth you should wait 1-3 days to take them out, depending on the ambient temperature (the colder the longer). So your paint is exposed to potential dirt and contaminants for days instead of minutes.

?OK, you sand it, and I?ll paint it. I?ll take care of you.?

Like he's doing you a favor! You don't have the tools or the expertise to do the job RIGHT. And it probably does have some filler in it (bondo). How does he want you to address that? Are you supposed to just take it down to bare metal and he will take it from there? It will probably need more filler, sanding, priming, sanding, etc.

The reason he sent you to the paint store for the color match is because he didn't keep records of how he mixed the paint (the formula). It's probably a custom color. Or he didn't record the code he used from a standard formula. The color matching computers work pretty good, but it WILL NOT be identical to what's on your bike, especially since it has metallic in it. Plus we don't know what kind of paint he used (single stage or multi-stage).

What a mess. I feel for you, buddy. Here's what I would do IMHO:

Reputable shops warranty their work. Some warranty for life. Did you get a waranty when you had it painted? He should sand, prep, and paint the tank at no cost. He should also have to buy the paint you bought. If he refuses to cooperate I would complain to the authorities and try and get your money back, plus the cost of re-painting ALL your parts.

Go back to that paint store and find out what they sold you. Is it single stage or is it a base color which needs a clearcoat applied? What brand of paint did they mix? Get the formula (code) they used and keep it with your records so you can make more of the same color if needed.

Take your tank to another shop in town. Explain briefly what happened and get a bid on fixing this mess. DON'T tell them who did the work previously, even if they ask. Let them know you have a pint of paint to use. If you are willing, tell them you will sand it down to bare to save some money. But they will probably want to do that themselves. Remember, the prep is very important!

If money were no object:

I would start over completely. Who knows how long the paint will last on the other pieces. And I don't like that guy at all. Get bids from several shops to do the work. Find out what type of spray booth they have. Ask them if they warranty their work. Once you pick the shop, ask to look at the color chips they have for their brand of paint and pick the color you like. Use a standard color. They should have several hundred colors to choose from. Then if you ever need to re-paint or touch up you can get an exact match mixed up anywhere in the world.

Well, the rusty tank thread turned into a painting thread!!

I hope I have helped. Let me know if I can help further.

Bruce

[GS750]

Im in australia, I had my tank, sidecovers, and ducktail painted recently in 2 pack automotive paint (eurethane??)

It has 2 parts, the paint, to which is added a chemical HARDENER.

My paint colour was a custom colour, with metalic AND pearl.

It was painted then has a CLEAR coat over the BASE coat.

ALL metalics for as long as I can remember (memory is about 30'ish years) have ALWAYS had to have a clear coat over them. The metalic flake is aluminium and it it doenst have a clear coat over it then it oxidises and goes dark and horrible, not to mention, makes the paint feel like sandpaper.........

I have spilled AVIATION fuel over my paint and it hasnt marked it, made it soft, melt etc etc......

2 PACK is the ONLY way to go in the year 2005 ++++

[Billy Ricks]

Sudco sells what looks to be the best solution to rust inside a tank out there. It's a product called Rustol. It can be used over and over, no need to dispense of used material. As Bruce has pointed out prep is everything. It doesn't matter if you're painting a door casing or a piano, the end result is only as good as the prep.

[bgk]

Thanks guys,

I've got to think and wait on this.

I can't be spending money on the bike right now.

Christmas gifts, heating bills, yada, yada.