Points help needed, bike died 4 times and now won't start

[gotjeepzj]

First can you jump start a bike with a car? Next see http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=88474 I think I screwed up the timing more than I helped. Now to the current.

I was running to work and noticed the bike suddenly lose power and wouldn't maintain speed. I kept downshifting but couldn't maintain any speed. I pulled over and it died. It wouldn't start for about 5 mins and then it ran ok. Then about 1 mile down the road it died again. Same symptoms. Again 5 mins later ran ok. Again loss of power and eventualy died after another mile. At this point I realized it was more than likley something with the points. I pulled the cover and found the points for 2-3 had come off the half plate. By that i mean the side with the spring, along with the post with c clip still attached had completely pulled out off the plate.

I nice fellow biker on a harley stopped to offer assistance. We tapped the pin back in the plate. At first the points wouldn't open at all. Then he helped me adjust the points against the cam to get it to open. I noticed it sparking on the 1-4 but not as visible on 2-3 and it didn't seem to arc on the flat spots but more from the side of the circle, to the other. Now it seems I'm not getting any spark at the engine, but this is most likely due to the extremely low battery.

Not having and knowledge of points how hard is this to fix? Or should I just I just go for the permanent points replacements?

 

[mark]

Points are not that hard to adjust. Should have the procedure in your service manual. Need a timing light, or bulb type continuity tester, and some feeler guages.

You shouldn't see any spark at all between your points. Only spark should be at the plugs. Spark at the points is an indicator of a bad condensor.

 

[gotjeepzj]

A timing light would only work if the engine was running correct? I've never seen a lamp continuity tester. As I stated before I tried to adjust the pointers per clymer, but it states to loosen screws for the plate and turn the plate until the points open(1-4) no matter which way I rotated the plate the points didn't open. Thanks for the tip about the condensors. Both the points spark when they open.

 

[earlfor]

OK, from memory...You will need to set the point gaps and then the timing. You will need a feeler guage, a spark plug wrench, and probably either a 19 mm or a 14 mm wrench. You will also need a continuity light. The continuity light can be just a 12 volt bulb with two wires attached to it with an alligator clip on the end of each wire.

Remove the spark plugs.

Loosen the three screws holding the breaker plate in place. Rotate the breaker plate until the screw located at 12 oclock is centered in its slot in the breakerplate. Tighten the three breakerplate screws down lightly.

With the 19 or 14 mm wrench (use the largest one you can) turn the crankshaft clockwise only with the wrench until the left pointset is at it widest gap. There is a hold down screw on the left pointset that holds it to the breaker plate. Loosen that screw slightly. BY moving the left pointset in or out reset the points gap to 14 thousandths. When the pointgap is 14 thousandths, tighten the hold down screw on the pointset.

With the 19 or 14 mm wrench, rotate the crankshaft clockwise until the right pointset is at its widest gap. Loosen the hold down screw on the
right pointset and set the gap to 14 thousandths. Retighten hold down screw when the gap is correct.

On your breaker plate at 12 oclock is the timing window. looking though that you will see a mark on the crankcase or you may have a timing plate with a timing line on it. That is the mark you will need to align to.

On your centrifugal advance counterweights, you should see marks that look like |T |F1 |F4 on the advance counterweight and then 180 deg away on the other counterweight, you should see |F2 |F3.

The |T is top dead center for cylinder #1. |F1 is static advanced timing mark for cylinder #1 and 4. |F3 is static advanced timing mark for cylinder #2 and 3.

The last mark in the sequence of |T |F1 |F4 is the full advance mark for the #1 cylinder. The last mark in the sequence |F2 |F3 is the full advance mark for the #3 cylinder.

The left pointset fires the #1 and 4 cylinder. The right pointset fires the #2 and 3 cylinder.

To set the timing for the #1 cylinder....................
Rotate the crankshaft clockwise until the |F1 is aligned with the | on the engine case. (the mark on the engine case will be located on the left edge of the breaker plate hold down screw that is located at 12 oclock.)

Connect a continuity light to the white wire on the left pointset. (only the white wire, it must not touch anything else) Connect the other wire of the continuity light to ground.

Loosen the three screws on the breaker plate so you can rotate it.
rotate the breaker plate until the moment the continuity light goes off.
Tighten the three hold down screws on the breaker plate. Remove continuity light. You will NOT loosen the three breaker plate hold down screws again.

Rotate the crankshaft clockwise until you see the |F2 . Stop with the | aligned with the | on the crankcase. Connect the continuity light to the black wire on the pointset. Connect the other wire of the continuity light to ground. The right pointset is held in place by a half breaker plate that moves on top of the main one you previously adjusted. You cannot at this point move the main breaker plate again. You must move the half breaker plate. Loosen the hold down screw on the half breaker plate (NOT the pointset) and rotate it until the continuity light goes out. Tighten the hold down screw on the half breaker plate. Remove continuity light. Install spark plugs and hook up plug wires. Start bike.

You can check advance dynamically with a strobe timing light with the engine running if you wish. You can also set timing advance with the bike not running, but I didnt want to make this any more confusing than I had to at this point."


Earl

 

[gotjeepzj]

thanks Earl. Does the ignition need to be on during this, or not?

 

[earlfor]

The ignition is not on for setting the points gaps. The ignition IS on for setting the static timing with the continuity light.

Earl

thanks Earl. Does the ignition need to be on during this, or not?

 

[gotjeepzj]

Thanks for clearing that up. Neither my haynes nor my clymer states anything about the ignition being on which would probably explain why I failed using my multimeter. Are those lamp available at autozone?

 

[earlfor]

You can get a 12v continuity light at any auto parts store, walmart, K-mart, etc. Or, if you have a 12v light bulb and a spare socket, you can make your own

Earl

Thanks for clearing that up. Neither my haynes nor my clymer states anything about the ignition being on which would probably explain why I failed using my multimeter. Are those lamp available at autozone?

 

[gotjeepzj]

Earl I finally got around to trying my continuity light and my multimeter. I set the point gaps and followed the other steps, but I couldn't get the points to break simply by moving the plate. I've got the first line of the f 1-4 lined with the timing mark and no matter which way you rotate the plate the points do not break continuity. Is it possible it jumped time? Or can bikes even do that?

 

[earlfor]

There are two possibilities. Are you certain the positive wire that attaches to the points is isolated correctly with the small fiber washers and bushing?
connect your continuity light. With the points closed, the light should be on.
With your fingernail, open/pull apart the point. When the points are open, the light should go off. If it does not, your wiring connection to the points is not isolated as it should be. If the points being open results in the light going off, then the only other possibility is you have the point gap set wrong.
Before settting the points, rotate the breaker plate until the 12 oclock hold down bolt is centered in its slot. Tighten the breaker plate back down.
Rotate the crankshaft (sparkplugs removed) clockwise with a 19 mm wrench until the point gap is at its widest point. check to be certain the rubbing block on the points is on the cam lobe when you set the point gap. It can be difficult to tell exactly when the points are at their widest gap to begin the process. I sometimes have to rotate the engine through a few times to get a feel for exactly where widest is.

I set the point gaps to 14 thou. a 13 guage should go through real easy and a 15 shouldnt go through.

Lemme know how you do. It gets easier after a little practice.


Earl

Earl I finally got around to trying my continuity light and my multimeter. I set the point gaps and followed the other steps, but I couldn't get the points to break simply by moving the plate. I've got the first line of the f 1-4 lined with the timing mark and no matter which way you rotate the plate the points do not break continuity. Is it possible it jumped time? Or can bikes even do that?

 

[gotjeepzj]

Thanks Earl. I did start with the plate lined up in the center of the adjustment slot. I also rotated the half plate to where the indentions were from the previous setting. It wouldn't start and I remembered reading how important the battery is for the ignition. I jumped it off with my jeep with some help from starting fluid and after a few seconds she's purring. Rev's freely through the rpm range with no hesitation. I haven't gone on a test ride yet. I did kill it and it fired right back up. Plugs 1,2,4 were soaked in gas when I removed them before setting the point gap. I still think the petcock is shot. I need to find an original that has prime setting as mine does not. I'll check the timing again with a timing light later on.

 

[gotjeepzj]

Went for a test run. Ran good lots of power. It still smokes a little (grey) I also started getting a slight whirring sound from the front. It sounded like something was rubbing on the tire. I didn't notice it untill I went to stop. I'm a little scared about taking it for a longer run. When it would run, then die I was told it could possibly be fuel related. The full fuel bowls allowed for a short run and the reason it took 5 mins of sitting before it would start again was the fuel took that long to seep back into the bowls. I don't want to get stuck on the side of the road again.