Clutch nasty in the morning

[Anonymous]

Hi, '81GS850g w/22k miles. As colder mornings are here I find clutch has trouble disengageing first thing in AM. Will stall when put in 1st gear unless I am rolling a bit & revving engine a bit. Until very warm if I pull in clutch lever & rev engine while still in gear, the clutch is still driving the bike a bit. After a mile or two of shifting it's ok & is a sweet baby all day & even if sitting all day & started up way after dark. Bike kept in unheated shed, hasn't gone below freezing but winter coming & I ride all year. Any tips, ...please?
Thanks, DH :roll:

[Anonymous]

You need to use a lighter grade oil by the sound of it. Go for something with lower numbers, such as 5W40 or 10W40 rather than 20W50.

It sounds like the oil is grabbing until it gets to running temperature.

Kim

[Anonymous]

oil in 850

Has fresh 10w40(motorcycle engine oil) and this happens even when temp is in high 40's in AM. Never had this in any motorcycle I've owned. Oil weight could be an issue but I doubt it at this point. Thanks for your input.
DH

[earlfor]

Re: Clutch nasty in the morning

DH
I would try this. It wont cost you anything and it just may solve the problem. Remove the clutch plates. Put a half quart or so of oil in a pan and take a bristle brush and scrub them clean of any residue or possible "crud" spots. Any degree of wear on them could result in a "set", or wear pattern or possible warp. I would reverse the orientation of every other plate so that nothing "matched" where it originally was when I reinstalled the plates.
I've run 20W50 in November in Maine and not had your problem, so I have doubts it is your oil weight.

Earl

Hi, '81GS850g w/22k miles. As colder mornings are here I find clutch has trouble disengageing first thing in AM. Will stall when put in 1st gear unless I am rolling a bit & revving engine a bit. Until very warm if I pull in clutch lever & rev engine while still in gear, the clutch is still driving the bike a bit. After a mile or two of shifting it's ok & is a sweet baby all day & even if sitting all day & started up way after dark. Bike kept in unheated shed, hasn't gone below freezing but winter coming & I ride all year. Any tips, ...please?
Thanks, DH :roll:

[Anonymous]

clutch tips

Thanks will try this soon as I get a chance,

DH

[KEITH KRAUSE]

My 1000en is acting about the same.I found that squeezing lever in and out about 5 times before tapping into gear will stop her from lurching out. But clutch needs inspection.Mine was rebuilt and basket welded by Vance&Hines 9000mi. ago. New fibers,springs,and damper springs,but steel plates were 'ok' and kept. I had no trouble until(coincidence?)I changed oil.I used Castrol 'Actevo'20/50.It claims to stick to engine parts much longer between starts,some kind of 'special' molecules or something.'Dragging'? started immediately. I changed oil,going with Motul 3000 20/50 and still have problem.It is not the'20/50'doing it, I put over 100,000mi. using 20/50,no problem ever.I live in So.Calif.and problem is not effected so much by temp' as it is by how long bike sits. Anyway,my Suzuki shop manual suggests steel plates may be uneven/warpped,and V&H says a cracked fiber will do it, and because it developed problem so quickly.I'm taking plates out to check everything this weekend,and I hope to see no worse than a cracked plate.If not a crack,plates may be contaminated by that Castrol stuff.I'll clean all up,check for basket burrs...Another thing,when I pull in lever FIRST time,especially after a couple days,I can hear clutch make a quick sound ,(can't describe)but not as loud with second/third pull,sounds like initial sticking.I'm not sure what is BEST thing to use to clean parts with.Kerosene,brake fluid...? Maybe ask GSers.I'll reply my results. KK

[Anonymous]

clutch prob

Thanks for your input. Curious what you find. Is yours ok once warmed up? Seems strange if so that it would be warped/broken parts issue then. More to do with adhesion of oil I would think. :?

[SqDancerLynn1]

Give it more time to warm up. My GS850 does the same thing. IT IS related to the oil. The clutch works better with the MC oil. If you can't live with it change the oil to regular non MC specific 10-40 or 20-50 oil I just let mine warm up a little longer

[Anonymous]

warm up time

How long do you warm up? I have gone 5-10 min & same effect. I do not believe long warm up is so good for engine. I was always told to start up & drive off carefully ASAP until fully warm. I usually wait till I can safely come off choke on a MC tho I have been extending the time on the 850. I also
pump
the clutch quite a few times to try to free it (pump = pull & release lever & blip throttle while the lever is pulled in)
I do believe the problem relates to oil & the friction plates with low temperature acting as the catalyst. The bike sat for a very long time(years) before I got it.
Thanks for all your input, still accepting ideas & will post the prob & solution when case is solved.
DH :?

[SqDancerLynn1]

Usually wait until it will accept thro with the choke off and put it into gear only when i am ready go and let the clutch out because it drags. Before the last oil change I was using Castrol 10-40 or 20-50 don't remember which and I had no problem. I did an oil change and switched to 20-50 Torko Motorcycle oil and only then did I have the problem. Also I don't have number comparason but it seams to me that at 6K rpm now it is about 90mph before it was bouncing between 85-90 maybe a 200 rpm difference. Besides it doesn't get that cold in Calif Once it is warmed up NO problems

[KEITH KRAUSE]

If I was riding,all warmed up,pulled over and turned it off, and then started up,pull lever in and tap into gear,it would not lurch. But if I delayed restart for a couple hrs,it would,but not much,not enough to stall.And if I delayed restart for about 1/2 a day, it would lurch and most likely stall.But if I let it sit 1/2 day but squeezed lever several times first,it would not lurch at all.That's how I've been living with it.So it's either heat related,or something is making assembly not work smoothly,unless it is operated constantly.I think clutch is not going in and out 'true'.I think plates may be sticking together.If problem is due to 'glazing',I don't think it would have problem so suddenly.A crack could happen suddenly,or maybe that Castrol 'Actevo'did something?All I know is I plan to check everything Friday, and will pass on my results,if I don't go nuts first. By the way,to clean plates,what would you use?Brake cleaner,gas,clean oil,etc? KK

[moto_dan]

Plates and springs?

I reread the posts and may have missed it. What brand of friction plates and clutch springs are you running? Some plates and springs(other than OEM Suzuki) have been reported to display symptoms you describe.

[KEITH KRAUSE]

What brand of plates?

Actually,I don't know.I left that decision to Vance&Hines,and it's been about 2 1/2 yrs. When I went by a couple weeks ago,I asked and he said he was not sure.I asked if they were Barnetts and he said no, he does'nt go w/Barnett.So I guess he went with whatever brand he opened his parts book to.I had always assumed he would buy Suzuki,but if he had he would have said so I think.Actually,I'm a little ticked about it.At the time I did'nt think to ask, but would have insisted on Suzuki if I thought I'd get different.Several parts in rebuild were Suzuki.My reciept says 8 'fibers',$21.76 ea. so I sure paid like they were 'Genuine'.Now I hear how sensitive GS clutches are, even brand of oil some say messes them up.It's upsetting because I never went cheap on my restoration, and to not get my moneys worth stinks.Now after only 9000mi. I will look at it myself tomorrow.You know what REALLY gets me is,I was unaware of warnings about oil ratings SH,SJ,etc,saying they're bad for roller brg cranks.So I ran Castrol GTX 20/50 (as recommended by dealer)and went 100,000+ with no clutch problems.Now I buy 'motorcycle' oil, and have a problem.Sorry, I guess I'm venting. If I have to I'll buy all new Suzuki plates.Can't just do nothing,I'll get it right. Thanks for your input. KK

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Clutch dragging.

Hi, suzukizone. Sorry I'm so slow.If your interested I just put bike back together (Sat.) and waited 'til this morning to test, since dragging was at its worst when cold. My dragging is completely gone. I rode bike for about 15 min. and it shifts much smoother and finding neutral when stopped is now easy. Tranny still is a bit clunky,but not nearly as much. Also, with motor off, and in gear, if you pull in lever it does'nt roll as easily as when it was new,but I'm not complaining. I'll tell you what I did.
Remember,my clutch was rebuilt 9,000 mi. ago,but all that means is V&H welded basket and beefed up damper springs, and replaced my fibers and clutch springs with AFTERMARKET ones. I found no serious wear marks on any parts, the outer basket did have some small(maybe 1/64'')'grooves' where the metal edge of fibers contacts basket 'rails'. From reading other posts 1/64 is 'ok',and DONT take a file to them unless just a 'burr'. If grooving is deeper you can have a problem. I caliper checked, all parts were in specs'. However, the aftermarket fibers are thicker than stockers(.17''compared to.11'') Others say less plates are replaced(1 of each?)so everything fits. I did not go beyond plates removal.I asked V&H about small amount of in and out play of basket/gear assy'(approx .16'') they said it was 'ok', it has that because of brgs/spacers. I let plates soak in fresh oil, moved their positions around, re-assembled and torqued springs REAL evenly at 8.5 lbs. I lubed cable with 3/1 oil. I then changed oil to 10/40, instead of 20/50.Same brand, Motul 3000. In all, I did'nt do ANYTHING to fix problem except change oil.
I now am certain that because the clutch assy' is sensitive to plate thickness,spring pressure,aftermarket parts and even oil viscosity,you can have one thing, or(in my case) a combination of things cause dragging/slipping/rougher shifting and stiff lever.
I had aftermarket fibers installed in my rebuild and was told by V&H to run 10/40 after a short 30 wt. break in. I did for two oil changes,and then I went back to 20/50 like I always had.The dragging/shifting started immediately and I could not understand why. Now I know,I COULD run 20/50 if ALL plates are stock Suzuki, but with thicker aftermarkets,no,only 10/40.
I know others recommend 20/50 (I was one of them) I was told by a mechanic when I bought the bike in'79 to use it,so I did. But the Suzuki factory manual says use 10/40, they designed the GS, they should know what oil is best. And in my case,with thicker plates you MUST run 10/40.
So maybe something in this is also your problem and others. I'm glad I discovered for myself this 'combination of frustration', because it was wearing me out, along with my clutch,my gears,etc... Hope this helps! KK.

[daveo]

The sticky disc thing is common in lots of different bikes,what's happening is the oil has enough sticktion,when cold, to hold the drive and driven plates together. The Fix is,before you start the bike, put the bike in 1st,pull in the clutch and rock the bike till you feel the discs spin free, a quick push is usually all it takes, start as normal and ride!!! I know others think 20-50 oil is OK, but I tried it once and went back to 10-40 within an hour,there was that big of a difference