More Battery/Charging Issues!

[Ridealot]

Also, this should happen less often if I get one of those sealed/maintenence free batteries, correct?

Don't count on it. I put a high dollar Oddyssey sealed battery in my K1100LT 13 months ago. It is a 925 cranking amp battery. At rallies we like to sit around with the radio on the bike turned on. The battery was strong as a mule until last month. Sudden death! Luckily the Oddyssey batteries have a 2 year free replacement warranty. I should receive the new battery early next week.
I usually get 5-7 years out of bike batteries so I was surprised when this one took a nose dive. Of course I happened to be about 10 miles from home when I got to hear the click-click-click of the "No sirree i aint a gonna start"

[jimcor]

Sounds like the typical Yuasa sudden battery failure. Since motorcycle batteries are smaller than a car battery the plates inside are closer together. Combine that with the more hostile environment a bike battery lives in (much more vibration than a car) and the plates in the battery break free. Once 2 plates touch inside the battery its all over. Sudden battery death. Time for a new battery.

Glad someone else brought this up. I've posted it a # of times and I feel like I'm slamming them too much, but...I've had 2 very expensive Yuasa batteries fail very early in their lives and suddenly. One in each machine, and that one in the Kwacker is mucho dinero. I don't buy that brand anymore. Others have had excellent results using Yuasa product and their current line has hopefully been improved to eliminate this problem. But,
"ya pays yer money and ya take yer chances. YMMV.

[Cajun Cycler]

Mike, find yourself an equivilant amp/per/hr no maintenance gel battery and buy a small battery tender. Your worries will be over.

[UncleMike]

Mike, find yourself an equivilant amp/per/hr no maintenance gel battery and buy a small battery tender. Your worries will be over.

I'm on it. I've got a 12v trickle charger. Only problem is that I have to remove the tank bracket and the airfilter assembly in order to hook it up. It has several connections available that are detachable halfway down the line. I've considered keeping the ones I use to charge the battery hooked up to the battery, and then just snaking the connection out somewhere, so I'd only have to snap that in place when charging.

Any reason that would be a problem?

[relic-rider]

That permanant pigtail hookup for the battery tender is the only way to go. I just did it on mine. Got sick and tired of removing that goofy air box.

Dan

[earlfor]

The sediment forms a sticky paste somewhat like dust mixed with vaseline. :-) Some of the free floating particles would drain out, but most will remain stuck in the bottom of the battery case and to the plates. The particles come from the plates, so if there is sediment in the battery, that mass had to come from somewhere. It once was material in the plates. With this normal
process, eventually, the plates can be no thicker than a potato chip.

Deep discharge and excess charge rates accelerate deterioration of the plates. A battery will last longest if the recharge cycle is kept the most stable and minimal. A properly working charging system, clean connections and minimal harness resistance is preferred. If the battery normally rests for example at 12.7 volts and the charging system is only having to put 3/10 of a volt into it, the sulfation process will be minimal. If the battery always drops to 12v and the charging system has to push 1 volt to recharge it, the self destruction is accelerated. It is always bad to drain a battery down to flat and then charge it at an excessive rate. Incorrect water level will also decrease battery life. Extreme low water level is pretty much instant death.
Too high a charging voltage and too great a charging amperage destroys batteries. Normal maximum charge rate is 10% of amp hr capacity. If you have a 14LA2 battery, then the max charge rate is 1.4 amps.

Earl

Theoretically, couldn't you open this up and clean off the plates and be good to go, assuming you had more acid and distilled water to replace the old stuff? Again, I'm not going to do this, attempt this, or even take my battery apart, but I'm just thinking about stuck in the outback/after the apocalypse solutions. Call it a burning desire to KNOW.

Also, this should happen less often if I get one of those sealed/maintenence free batteries, correct?

[Cajun Cycler]

Battery TenderBattery Tender Junior $36.99
MSRP $39.99

• Battery Tender Junior's lightweight, compact size makes it ideal for those hard-to-fit spots
• The trickled charger with a brain will assure batteries are maintained after charging and allows ready to go!
• Fully automatic two-stage lead-acid battery charger. Perfect for all lead-acid, sealed maintenance free and gel cell batteries
• After reaching peak 14.4 VDC, charger automatically switches to 13.2 VDC float voltage
• When voltage drops below 12.6 VDC, charger resumes charging back to 14.4 VDC
• Solid state two color LED indicates stage of charger
• Spark proof
• Reverse polarity protected
• 12' output cord
• 5 year warranty!

I got mine at a bike shop for $30 even! Best investment I have made so far. Up till now I have been replacing a battery on the GS every year.

[Boondocks]

I'm on it. I've got a 12v trickle charger. Only problem is that I have to remove the tank bracket and the airfilter assembly in order to hook it up. It has several connections available that are detachable halfway down the line. I've considered keeping the ones I use to charge the battery hooked up to the battery, and then just snaking the connection out somewhere, so I'd only have to snap that in place when charging.

Any reason that would be a problem?

Be careful using a "trickle charger". Most of the cheap ones advertised as trickle chargers are unregulated and can overcharge a battery if left connected too long. These are "dumb" chargers that just keep pouring voltage into a battery, and although the current (amps) is low, the voltage can rise to the 15V+ area which causes excessive gassing, water loss, corrosion, and can be the cause of battery failure instead of preventative maintenance.

AGM (absorbed glass mat) batteries are more resistant to vibration, are maintenance free, and are better suited for severe duty applications such as motorcycles. I would not use a trickle charger with one. As Cajun Cycler suggested, I would get a Battery Tender Plus. It is specifically designed to charge AGM batteries in the best possible way. It comes with quick hookup cables so that nothing on the motorcycle has to be touched to charge the battery, and it can be left connected without concern. It charges in stages and then keeps the battery fully charged at a safe "float" voltage. You can buy a charger like this for about $35, and it's a good investment.

[Boondocks]

Cajun Cycler's post on the Battery Tender Jr. wasn't up when I started my last post. This is a good charger, but it is less sophisticated in its charging method than the Battery Tender Plus and it has less charging current. The Battery Tender Plus is the premier model for motorcycles, and is selling for $35 at Competition Accessories, Chaparral Motorsports, and probably others. Chaparral is selling the Battery Tender Jr. for $20, but I would buy the Battery Tender Plus. The "Plus" indicates a specific design to optimize the charging of AGM batteries.

[DaveT.]

Wonderful. Thanks Earl, and everyone else.



Any chance on elaboration here? Am I putting the ends of my multimeter on the neg battery terminal and the negative battery cable? What should it be set at?

Thanks,
Mike

I would use a digital multimeter. Hard to explain because all multimeters seem to use different symbols for AC/DC volts & current. AC usually is a ~ symbol (sine wave) and DC usually looks like = sign. A is usually amps and V is volts. In reality, E=IR. E= volts, I=amps, R=resistance (ohm's law). Start with the highest amp scale DC on the meter, usually 10 amp. Make sure you use the DC current setting. Should see less than 1 amp. Then try the next lowest scale and work your way down to the lowest mA scale. Positive wire (red) from the multimeter should go to the neg terminal. If it goes negative, reverse the DVM's test leads.

I say fark it and just get a new battery. Hard to test a potentially bad battery. Friends 850 battery just expired. Only would get up to 11.5 VDC.

[UncleMike]

I would use a digital multimeter. Hard to explain because all multimeters seem to use different symbols for AC/DC volts & current. AC usually is a ~ symbol (sine wave) and DC usually looks like = sign. A is usually amps and V is volts. In reality, E=IR. E= volts, I=amps, R=resistance (ohm's law). Start with the highest amp scale DC on the meter, usually 10 amp. Make sure you use the DC current setting. Should see less than 1 amp. Then try the next lowest scale and work your way down to the lowest mA scale. Positive wire (red) from the multimeter should go to the neg terminal. If it goes negative, reverse the DVM's test leads.

I say fark it and just get a new battery. Hard to test a potentially bad battery. Friends 850 battery just expired. Only would get up to 11.5 VDC.

I'm absolutely getting a new battery. I thought you said I should test this to make sure the new one doesn't get drained as well.

Thanks,
Mike

[DaveT.]

I'm absolutely getting a new battery. I thought you said I should test this to make sure the new one doesn't get drained as well.

Thanks,
Mike

Let us know the results! :-D Run the test on the new battery...

[UncleMike]

Let us know the results! :-D Run the test on the new battery...

Will do.

Danke

[qslim]

If your battery falls below 9VDC anytime, it's toast in my opinion. Get a new battery. Probably take out the stator with that battery... :shock:

Either that or check for a drain with the ignition off. Use the ammeter between the neg batt cable and the neg batt terminal. Less than 250mA DC would be best.

DaveT, I always thought that parasitic draw should be more along the order of 25mA. Isn't two tenths of an amp an awful lot for a bike with no computer modules to be drawing while its off?