Clutch 1 : Me 0 - Please help!

[qslim]

Man, is replacing the cluch fiber discs ever easy. You know that feeling you get when something is going along way too smooth? That little voice in the back of your head that says "something will go real bad real soon..."
So anyway, I broke the crap out of one of the spring bolts in the hub sleeve. I was torquing merrily along to what I thought were the proper specs according to the ol' Clymer (15-18ft-lbs) and SNAP!
So a few questions to the brains here:
1: What are the specs? I don't have my manual here in front of me, but it was something like "driven and drive plate mounting bolts". That was the only thing I read in the spec table at the end of the chapter that was close to what I was doing.

2: It looks like the first few threads in the hole are kind of chewed up. I'm not able to get the rest of the bolt out because of this. I was thinking that I can thread the body of the bolt farther in and run a tap down there, but I have reservations about tapping out aluminum that has to hold in a clutch spring. Would it be a better idea to get a new one? ($73.00 from the Bandit)

3: The spring set I ordered from CRC are stiffer than the springs I removed. There are fewer coils and they are a bit thicker, but the same height. I remember reading on the site that these springs are stiffer than stock, but now I wonder if this might be the source of the problem. Now that I think about it, I don't feel that the bolt was threaded all the way in when it broke, but rather the spring tension is what made it pop.

So there you go, I'm at your feet. On a brighter note, I was able to get my new VH 4-1 installed before this clutch debacle. Looks great, sounds great, shaves about 40lbs.

[bwringer]

That's WAY too much torque for a 6mm bolt!

NEVER EVER blindly trust a manual or torque wrench. The spec in my Haynes manual is a more realistic 8.0 to 9.5 foot-pounds, and most 6mm bolts call for a bit less - usually 6-8 foot pounds.

Most inexpensive torque wrenches are wildy inaccurate at those low settings, too, so you are actually bettter off doing it by feel if you have some experience.

I'm not sure if there's enough aluminum there to helicoil.

I'll PM you -- I have an 850 clutch hub I can sell you for a lot less than a new part.

[qslim]

Thanks BW, but I already placed the order for a new part along with some other stuff I've been meaning to get.
The torque wrench isn't the problem. It's a nice 1/4" Snapon. I think the problem may be with the springs. I ordered six factory spring from BikeBandit, along with new bolts, and I'll dial down the wrench to 8 or so this next time around.

[RobGS850L]

It may be a blessing in disguise. I have the heavier springs on my 1100 and traffic is a bit of a workout. If I were you and me also having an 850 and having done this to my 850 without any problems I'd put half old springs and half the new springs in. My 850 slipped bad and then I put 3 new springs in and left the rest original and now it's cool.

[bwringer]

My 850's clutch is wearing the heavy-duty springs, and getting the bolts started straight was definitely a struggle. I feel your pain...

The clutch pull is definitely a bit heavier, but it doesn't really bother me. If you measure the length of the original springs, you'll probably find that they are sagged pretty far out of spec after all these years. Simply installing fresh OEM springs would bring the clutch back up to snuff without creating undue installation troubles or a heavy clutch pull. You can also use three original and three heavy duty with no problems.

It sounds like you have a nice torque wrench that should be accurate in that range, but the torque spec you were using was double what it should have been, which is why the bolt snapped.

I've found that with the Haynes and Clymer's manuals, you have to read both and then do a reality check before believing anything they say. They often disagree, but it's always a tossup whether one or both are wrong...

[lucidus]

Here's my question.

I just got the bike. It needs work. I just ordered a clutch off ebay. I have everything i need but a manual. Which manual should I buy? Is there another resource besides nagging you guys with my every little question? (that could get pretty old quick)

Now I am ready to put the new clutch on but i would like to make sure the torque specs are correct would you suggest just going with 6-8 ft-lbs maybe staying on the 6 side of that.

I found an exploded view on bike bandit of the clutch assembly. (which i am replaceing) can i trust that view.

THANKS

Lucidus

[kalessin]

We love questions!

If you can afford it, but all the manuals you can: factory manual from Suzuki, and Haynes and Clymer. These are in order of how they seem to be favored in this forum. Haynes manuals are not available for all GS models, but Clymer does seem to have one for everyone.

The clutch and other parts diagrams on Bike Bandit are accurate, but have BB's custom part numbers on them. I like http://www.alpha-sports.com/suzuki_parts.html for diagrams with the Suzuki parts numbers on them.

[SqDancerLynn1]

OFTEN those small bolt break, due to the threads being streatched. When you reuse them they snap

[Road_Clam]

Thanks BW, but I already placed the order for a new part along with some other stuff I've been meaning to get.
The torque wrench isn't the problem. It's a nice 1/4" Snapon. I think the problem may be with the springs. I ordered six factory spring from BikeBandit, along with new bolts, and I'll dial down the wrench to 8 or so this next time around.

It's not the springs. When you are torqueing down the spring bolts, the bolt washer is jamming against the internal spacer. IMO torquing those bolts is not critical. I simply use a 1/4" rachet, tighten them down good and snug, and your done. BTW, I think you are going to seriously regret using super stiff springs (especially after being stuck in stop and go traffic for an hour) The clutch pull is going to be brutal. I have Barnett friction plates, and stock replacement Suzuki springs, and my clutch action is perfect.

[cfcubed]

Agree - Don't fully trust Haynes or Clymer, esp. for torque specs!

<snip>
I've found that with the Haynes and Clymer's manuals, you have to read both and then do a reality check before believing anything they say. They often disagree, but it's always a tossup whether one or both are wrong...

Just wanted to 2nd this... Was adjusting chain slack on my 450 & the Clymer's text said rear axle nut torque = 62 - 83 ft.lb. Its table gave diff. torque specs... Thinking this was too much I checked my official Suz service manual & it said 26 - 31.5 ft.lb!

Guess its best to use your instincts (& maybe ebaying for a factory manual)... Reminds me of the time a friend gave me torque specs for the bigblock chevy when I was working on a smallblock... It felt like too much torque, but I didn't trust my instincts and SNAP!

[Jethro]

I can't remember how much I paid for them, but after about 200 miles I threw all my heavy duty Barnett springs in the woods in a fit of rage. Those things are miserable for casual sport touring.

[relic-rider]

I IMO torquing those bolts is not critical. I simply use a 1/4" rachet, tighten them down good and snug, and your done. BTW, I think you are going to seriously regret using super stiff springs (especially after being stuck in stop and go traffic for an hour) The clutch pull is going to be brutal. .

I beg to differ. The previous owner must have done an 80 lb weakling tightening of the bolts on mine. I had a very slippy clutch and some horrendous noises. Found 3 bolts and mangled springs in the bottom of the case and the other three were almost halfway unscrewed. I lucked out and just replaced the bolts and springs. I had to retap a slightly mucked up hole. Did the proper torque and everything is fine. The heavier springs do kind of take a toll on your hand in stop and go, though! I may replace them later with Suzuki ones.