Another piece of the puzzle? HELP!!

[Guest]

Pat (GravityTester) and I went for a ride today around Canandaigua Lake. It was freaking beautiful, but I had some issues with the bike. Let me lay it out for you.

Started the bike up and gave Pat a call. The bike required full choke, and then constant throttle or it would stall out. After a couple of minutes of this, it would idle around 1100 rpms with no choke or throttle, but it wasn't exactly a "confidence inspiring" idle. I took off down the street about half a mile to a parking lot where we were meeting and shut off the bike to avoid excessive idling.

Bike sat for about 10 minutes before starting again. Started up, but then about half a mile down the road, it died at a stop light while idling. Wouldn't start no matter how much choke or throttle with petcock in "ON" or "PRIME" positions, and I didn't want to wear down the battery or starter, so I pop-started it.

When it started it would idle again around 1100rpms, so we adjusted the idle to about 1800-1900rpms and took off down the road.

After about 15-20mins of riding, we stopped off at a scenic overlook and adjusted the idle again. This time to about 1500-1700 rpms, and took off down the road again.

Rode for about 20 more minutes or so, and stopped at another scenic overlook, which was amazing. Stopped for about 20 mins or so, and then took off down the road again.

Stopped briefly to point out a little scenery, and the bike died while idling, but started again.

I had little to no problem keeping up with Pat's '83 750ES, which is gorgeous, by the way. First time I've ever seen one up close to my bike, and my front 19" wheel is comical in comparison to the ES's 16".

Anyway, when we started the ride, the needle for the gas gauge was just over 1/2, but touching the 1/2 mark. When we stopped ~50miles later, I had just under 1/4 tank. That seems like pretty terrible milage for my bike, which holds 4.2gallons, incidentally.

Filled her up with 89 and drove home. Let her cool down a bit and pulled the plugs.

#1: Nice & tan
#2: Slightly darker tan. Might be from it fouling out before and not being fully cleaned.
#3: Same as #2
#4: Same as #1

Now, could the poor gas milage be attributed to my being an idiot and getting a little over-zealous with fuel-additives in that last tank? Thinking back, I must have added Stabil, Berryman's, Marvel Mystery Oil, and K-100 gasoline treatment. What an a$$ I am.

I also just checked, and the front wheel is dragging a bit, which would definitely account for at least some of the poor milage. When I spin it, I can hear the brake scraping a little, and it doesn't spin freely. What shall I do?

All I want is for her to start and idle reliably, so I don't have to worry about it dying at a stoplight, or blipping the throttle constantly everytime I'm shifting or slowing down. Starting everytime without having to keep the throttle on for the first couple minutes would be super as well.

So you tell me. What should I do? You tell me, and I'll do it.

Thanks guys. I appreciate each and every bit of help.

Mike

Bike has new oil and filter today, a new air filter about 200 miles ago. The petcock tested fine, giving gas on "PRIME," holding on "ON" and giving gas when on "ON" and sucking on the vaccum line.

Charging system and battery both tested fine.

Sprayed water around all boots and exhaust and no change in idle. All four exhaust pipes run hot and there is no discolouration in any of them.

[beby99]

Mike...

You've posted so many ??? I can't remember if you have cleaned your carbs yet. Actually taken them off the bike and cleaned them? If not I think this may help with your idle.

I also just checked, and the front wheel is dragging a bit, which would definitely account for at least some of the poor milage. When I spin it, I can hear the brake scraping a little, and it doesn't spin freely. What shall I do?

A little scraping is normal but the wheel should not stick when spun. Try tapping on the caliper with a hammer when the wheel is spinning. If it loosens up than the piston(s) are sticking and needs cleaning. How old are the brake pads?

[UncleMike]

Mike...

You've posted so many ??? I can't remember if you have cleaned your carbs yet. Actually taken them off the bike and cleaned them? If not I think this may help with your idle.



A little scraping is normal but the wheel should not stick when spun. Try tapping on the caliper with a hammer when the wheel is spinning. If it loosens up than the piston(s) are sticking and needs cleaning. How old are the brake pads?

No idea how old the brake pads are. I'll try tapping on the caliper to see if it gets a little better.

I'm gonna run her on gas and ONLY gas and see if it's any better. I've been trying to ascertain if a carb cleaning is what I really needed. I've read so many posts on here where people have automatically assumed it was the carbs, gone through the time and expense, only to find out it was something else.


If not, I'll clean the carbs. Where's the best place to look to figure out how to do that without taking them completely apart. Or is that what I'm gonna need?

[beby99]

Yea...I hear what your saying but there's no way of knowing how bad/good the carbs are without taking them off and having a look-see.

I would use the carb cleaning guide in the garage section. Don't think you can do a really good cleaning without splitting them which means a synch will be needed afterwards...ain't bikes fun!!

[argonsagas]

The simplest way to improve your brakes is by using a commercial spray brake cleaner.

Put down LOTS of paper to absorb the stuff, then spray liberally.

Thu junk that comes off will likely be black...VERY dirty.

If it is still dirty after the first attempt, wait a few minutes, then do it again.

It is common for these bikes to pile up dirt to the extent that the brakes drag constantly. When I first brought my "G" home, the battery died and I wanted to bump start it on a gentle downwards slope, but instead found I could not push the bike at all. Had to call for a boost.

The brake cleaner made a big difference in seconds.

[mrquadriga]

The simplest way to improve your brakes is by using a commercial spray brake cleaner.

Put down LOTS of paper to absorb the stuff, then spray liberally.

Thu junk that comes off will likely be black...VERY dirty.

If it is still dirty after the first attempt, wait a few minutes, then do it again.

It is common for these bikes to pile up dirt to the extent that the brakes drag constantly. When I first brought my "G" home, the battery died and I wanted to bump start it on a gentle downwards slope, but instead found I could not push the bike at all. Had to call for a boost.

The brake cleaner made a big difference in seconds.

Nice tip Ron, thanks. -Pete

P.S. Mike, you just keep on asking questions...there is a lot of folks watching your threads!

[UncleMike]

Thanks guys. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. I do worry that it gets a bit annoying at times, so it's nice to be re-assured that you aren't all completely sick of me and my questions yet.

Just wait until I attempt rebuilding the front forks,...

[Jethro]

If not, I'll clean the carbs. Where's the best place to look to figure out how to do that without taking them completely apart. Or is that what I'm gonna need?

I suggest taking the carbs off, completely take them apart, dipping them in an acid bath (available at any auto store- called carb dip), and rebuilding with new o-rings and any other parts that are worn. If not, you may be taking them off again, and again, and again....

Regarding the dragging brakes, it's not nessecarily the pistons that are sticking. In fact, I'd be willing to bet it is not the pistons at all. The calipers have two main body parts, one that is affixed to the bike (via the front forks or the rear wheel bracket) and one part that floats on two pins attached to the main caliper body. these pins have seals on them that reatian grease and keep dirt out. The brakes are designed to drag slightly on the rotor, yet the caliper floats side to side or "self centers". If the pins are dirty or the seals have failed or the lube has degraded, your caliper will not float properly on the pins, causing lots of drag. The front calipers get lots of rain and dirt, so I would check this first.

[UncleMike]

I suggest taking the carbs off, completely take them apart, dipping them in an acid bath (available at any auto store- called carb dip), and rebuilding with new o-rings and any other parts that are worn. If not, you may be taking them off again, and again, and again....

Regarding the dragging brakes, it's not nessecarily the pistons that are sticking. In fact, I'd be willing to bet it is not the pistons at all. The calipers have two main body parts, one that is affixed to the bike (via the front forks or the rear wheel bracket) and one part that floats on two pins attached to the main caliper body. these pins have seals on them that reatian grease and keep dirt out. The brakes are designed to drag slightly on the rotor, yet the caliper floats side to side or "self centers". If the pins are dirty or the seals have failed or the lube has degraded, your caliper will not float properly on the pins, causing lots of drag. The front calipers get lots of rain and dirt, so I would check this first.

I'm in no way opposed to cleaning the carbs. I actually enjoyed doing exactly that with the carbs on my 450. Went the full 9 with new o-rings from Robert Barr and float bowl gaskets and the dip in Berryman's and everything. I just don't have a manometer, so I have no way of synching them.

[UncleMike]

Regarding the dragging brakes, it's not nessecarily the pistons that are sticking. In fact, I'd be willing to bet it is not the pistons at all. The calipers have two main body parts, one that is affixed to the bike (via the front forks or the rear wheel bracket) and one part that floats on two pins attached to the main caliper body. these pins have seals on them that reatian grease and keep dirt out. The brakes are designed to drag slightly on the rotor, yet the caliper floats side to side or "self centers". If the pins are dirty or the seals have failed or the lube has degraded, your caliper will not float properly on the pins, causing lots of drag. The front calipers get lots of rain and dirt, so I would check this first.

On the T, it's a single disk, and it's on the right side of the wheel, if you're staring at the front of the bike. That being said, is the floating caliper on the inner or outer of the disk?

Never mind, it's gotta be the inside one that floats. It's laying directly against the disk. I see no space in between. When you say to check those pins and seals, what are we talking about. What should I be looking for in the Clymer?

Thanks,

Mike

[flyingace]

Uncle Mike,
I'll editorialize a little. You seem to define normal bike behavior as problems. My bike won't idle without the choke when cold. It dies if I take it off too soon and sometimes it will die even if I think it's warmed up. This doesn't mean anything is wrong. It's a manual choke designed to be used at the riders discretion.

As to gas mileage, you have a 4 gallon tank and went from 1/2 to 1/4 full in 50 miles. By my math, that's 50 MPG. Great mileage for any GS.

I'm not trying to criticize, but hoping you will try to enjoy your motorcycle and not worry so much about it.

[UncleMike]

Uncle Mike,
I'll editorialize a little. You seem to define normal bike behavior as problems. My bike won't idle without the choke when cold. It dies if I take it off too soon and sometimes it will die even if I think it's warmed up. This doesn't mean anything is wrong. It's a manual choke designed to be used at the riders discretion.

As to gas mileage, you have a 4 gallon tank and went from 1/2 to 1/4 full in 50 miles. By my math, that's 50 MPG. Great mileage for any GS.

I'm not trying to criticize, but hoping you will try to enjoy your motorcycle and not worry so much about it.

Those would be great if it was the case. The bike will die at startup unless I give it full choke AND throttle constantly. If I don't give throttle, even with full choke it will die immediately for the first two minutes or so.

While shifting, if I don't give it throttle in between gears it will die immediately. When stopping, at varying times it will die unless I'm giving it a little throttle. This affects my shifting, my breaking and takes my attention from the road. UNSAFE.

As for the milage, I went from over a half a tank to under a quarter tank. All in all, I almost lost half a tank and went 50 miles. That gives me somewhere in the range of 25-30mpg. Not good.

Something IS wrong, and I refuse to simply accept it.

That being said, I can totally see how someone would see my constant voicing of problems as indicative of a mechanical hypochondriac. I assure you, however, that I am not crazy.

[flyingace]

The additional info was enlightening.

You should not need to use the throttle if your choke is on. That's the idea of a choke - to relieve you of the stess of trying to keep the engine running when it's cold. This sounds like a choke malfunction to me - I'm having a deja vu - like I've said this before...

Once the bike is fully warm, are there still idling problems?

[UncleMike]

The additional info was enlightening.

You should not need to use the throttle if your choke is on. That's the idea of a choke - to relieve you of the stess of trying to keep the engine running when it's cold. This sounds like a choke malfunction to me - I'm having a deja vu - like I've said this before...

Once the bike is fully warm, are there still idling problems?

Sometimes. Sometimes it'll just quit at a stop light or when coming down off of high rpm's during a shift.

I can see that the choke operates, and I can tell the difference when it's on, but somethin' ain't right.

For instance, once it's warmed up, the choke operates just fine. Full choke and the bike will idle ~4K, half ~2K.

Even when it's cold, if I give it some gas, it'll idle at 4K for a little bit, then it starts dropping again.

I ran her almost dry yesterday and put in fresh gas with only a little Berryman's. She ran very good today, with no problems after warm up, but still needing full choke and constant throttle while warming up or she'd die.

We'll see how she runs tonight and tomorrow.

Thanks for your patience and help. I know I, and it, can be frustrating.

Mike

[UncleMike]

BTW,...Earl and I are thinking that any more detective work is kind of futile until I make sure the carbs are synched. I'll get on that, and get back to everyone.