How dumb is dumb? Points problem!!!!!

[bexabarr]

I'm about to do my timming, and (with the ignition in the "on" position, because otherwise it doesn't work) when the points are open on my continuity light, the light is on, and when the points are closed the light is off. I don't know why. On a side note, when I give the 12v an outside source of electricty (9V battery) then and only then it works the way earl says it should

With the points closed, the light should be on.
With your fingernail, open/pull apart the point. When the points are open, the light should go off. If it does not, your wiring connection to the points is not isolated as it should be. If the points being open results in the light going off

?????

[5RON5]

Tom, this sounds like mine does. The light doesn't go out no matter what I do. But using the timing light strobe light, I can see that the | F1& 2 are where they are suppose to be. Can't see the other side good enough to tell if it's on or not. But I see in the book, I am suppose to run the engine at 2500k next, & look at "F- 1&4 | mark, to see if it's right. But something is still wrong from when I test rode it yesterday. It is not right & I can't get the static light to go off when the points just open. So, I can't be for sure what's going on. I am going to try it all over again for the 100th time. Maybe somehow, I will get lucky! I just don't know what else to do. As I said, the bike ran very well before I lent my dumb ass hand to it, & thought what I read in the book about being sure before I did the test w/new plugs. To keep it from idling so much & riding it 50-60 MPH & stopping & checking the new plugs, to see how they look. My #4 plug is showing black & sooty. So I wanted to re-check the gap in the points before I did that test. Now I will be lucky to even ride the damn thing. Any other help or something will be checked & re-done if that's what anybody thinks I should do. Thanks. Ron..

[earlfor]

You're correct. Its been some years since I've had a bike with points ignition.
With the ignition switched on, the light will be on with the points open and off when they close, grounding the circuit. My test bulb was a spare turn signal bulb which is, I believe 23w. It did go out when the contacts were closed.

If using a self powered test light and the ignition off, it would be opposite and the light would be off/points open, and on points/closed.

Earl

Think again. both sides of the point plates are mounted to the same backing plate. Using the bikes 12 volts will not cause your probe type trouble lamp to go out or even dim enough for you to notice. Using a 1.5 volt self powered lamp has so little juice, you are able see what you cannot with the bikes 12 volt supply. Put it to the test and see.

Tom

[5RON5]

Then why isn't mine going off when the points open? I am using a pointer w/a bulb & wire coming out the end for ground. When it touches something that is hot-12v, it goes on. So it should go on off when the pointer hits a current of 12v, shouldn't it? Mine is not opening, I don't think then???? So maybe I have a wrong adjustment on the points, which brings me right back where I started! But when I turn the cam around to the widest opening & do a gap test to 14, it's right on! Same on the other side. SO I can not, for the life of me, figure out why I am having this problem. It misses, won't hardly idle, & pops at around 4-5K! Some one please help,,!! Ron....

[TomK]

Sounds like it is time for an old school method.

Try this for setting the static timing. Get a cigarette paper, hardly any smokes anymore I know but they still sell just papers at many markets and stores ,and place one paper between the points. Rotate the crank to the "F" position and adjust the points so you can just remove the paper without tearing it all to pieces. Do this for both sets of points. Then rotate the crank and set the gap at the "T" position. Recheck again at the "F" positions using the cigarette paper. You should be alll set and ready to go until you can find someone with a timing light to fine tune the timing This will get you very close.

Tom

[TomK]

(snip)
They don't have a high lobe, to adjust the open points, as does an auto. I turned to the F-1&3, & adjusted them from there. Thinking I had found where it was out of adjustment. Because when I turned it to the F-1&4, it looked closed, so I adjusted it to .026. Then went to the F-2&3, & did the same. It wouldn't even fire.
(snip)


I think I just figured out what you have been attempting to do. You do not set the point gap at the "F" positions, you set the point gap at the "T" positions. The only setting you do at the "F" positions is that you want the points to just start to open, not be fully opened. See my other message using the cigarette paper method.

Tom

[jimg]

Then why isn't mine going off when the points open? I am using a pointer w/a bulb & wire coming out the end for ground. When it touches something that is hot-12v, it goes on. So it should go on off when the pointer hits a current of 12v, shouldn't it? Mine is not opening, I don't think then???? So maybe I have a wrong adjustment on the points, which brings me right back where I started! But when I turn the cam around to the widest opening & do a gap test to 14, it's right on! Same on the other side. SO I can not, for the life of me, figure out why I am having this problem. It misses, won't hardly idle, & pops at around 4-5K! Some one please help,,!! Ron....

This sounds like a plain old regular test light (when it touches something that is hot -12v, it goes on.) It should be off when you touch the pointer to ground, assuming the wire coming out of the end is grounded.

Think of your points as a switch. When they are closed, they connect ground to the ground side of the coil. When they are open, ground is disconnected from the ground side of the coil.

What you are measuring when you ground the test light and and touch the pointer to the wire coming from the coil is whether the wire is grounded or not. If the points are open, then ground is not connected, and you will see the battery potential. If the points are closed, there will be no potential since both sides of the points will in essence be grounded.

If your light never goes out, then your points are not closing. Or, more likely, not closing anywhere near the position where you are checking them. Somehow, I suspect you have you have your half plate out of adjustment as to when the points should open.

[5RON5]

Tom, what you said about setting the points at "T" may damn near on the money. I set them to the second mark, after the | F1&2; on this one=|F 1&2|!!! Because, after another long day, I finally got the static light to go off, after setting the points to at 14, I got the light to go out when I rotated the outer cover. There, I did get the light to go off. And the second side too. Do you think I should re- do it, & set it at the "T" instead? I didn't get a chance to put the timing light on it yet, nor give it a test ride, but, it sounds a lot better. I also discovered, the 2&3 side, had a "tit" or a pit, on it. And It also looked a 'lil off center to me, & it also didn't act like it opened sometimes. Like the spring or the coil in it, wouldn't let it close & open when the high spot came up. So I had to sandpaper them & clean them some & sprayed some silicone to lube then a 'lil. After that, they seemed to work all right. That's when I got the light to go off when they started their opening mode. SO it looks good, & I have my fingers crossed for tomorrow. I know now, that after sandpapering them, I will need to replace them both very soon. I wanted to practice a bit on these & believe me, I did that!

[TomK]

Tom, what you said about setting the points at "T" may damn near on the money. I set them to the second mark, after the | F1&2; on this one=|F 1&2|!!! Because, after another long day, I finally got the static light to go off, after setting the points to at 14, I got the light to go out when I rotated the outer cover. There, I did get the light to go off. And the second side too. Do you think I should re- do it, & set it at the "T" instead? I didn't get a chance to put the timing light on it yet, nor give it a test ride, but, it sounds a lot better. I also discovered, the 2&3 side, had a "tit" or a pit, on it. And It also looked a 'lil off center to me, & it also didn't act like it opened sometimes. Like the spring or the coil in it, wouldn't let it close & open when the high spot came up. So I had to sandpaper them & clean them some & sprayed some silicone to lube then a 'lil. After that, they seemed to work all right. That's when I got the light to go off when they started their opening mode. SO it looks good, & I have my fingers crossed for tomorrow. I know now, that after sandpapering them, I will need to replace them both very soon. I wanted to practice a bit on these & believe me, I did that!

You are close. Remember at the "F" positions, you want the points to "just" start to open and at the "T" positions is where you set the actual point gap. I would worry more about the "F" positions being correct than the actual gap dimension.

Tom

[5RON5]

Well, I finally got it right on the money, this time! I just had to do it from memory, kinda. I spun the cam, until it showed me all the way open on the left side. Then again on the right. Okay, then I used the second mark, past the | F 1&2- on the second one | F 1&2 |. that one, & I put the feelers on it to, 15 this time. Then, I did other one w/the static light. I didn't care what or where it was. I just spun the cam past where I was from the first side, & turned a little at a time, this w/the key on. Just until I saw the right one spark! Just when it opened up & sparked. Then I undone the 3 outer screws on the plate. & as the static one on & the key, I moved the plate till the light went on. That's when it just closed again! I thing I set it then at 15. But used the points screw to do it with. Not the plate screws. Yesterday, I couldn't get the thing to run at 1500, well I could, but I couldn't get the timing light to show where it was suppose to at 1500. And then, get it to run at 2500, on the mark too. Only the 1500 would line up right, not to 2500. So that's when I knew it was way out of timing. That's when I did it my way. And now it idles right & it shows where it's suppose to at 1500 RPM & at 2500 RPM! Both right on the money! So I really don't know how I did it. Not really. I have done it so so many times, that I can just go & do it. But not anywhere close to how it tells me to do it in either book! In this case, these books are worth absolutely nothing! I probably would still be there trying to set the damn points & time it, if not for you Tom, making me realize I had done it, not on the mark it tells ya to in the book. But on another mark, past the mark in the book. So I don't even know if it is set now, for the mark at T or not. I just couldn't tell ya. But I left the cover off again. Maybe I will go make sure tomorrow, so I can write it in the book! That way I won't even try'n make the same mistake again. By doing what the damn book says! Thank you for your input. Ron..