brake feel

[DJones]

I have a `79 GS 1000E with stock brakes. it is all too easy to lock up both wheels. What can I do to increase the feel of the brakes? Would kevlar pads help? I already have stainless steel braided brake lines :roll:

[focus frenzy]

You ether have superhuman grip, or are using tires with a very hard compound, or old tires.
When I bought my 1000g it had sat for six years on old style chin-shin tires, they had become harder than they originally where and traction was non-existent, it to could lock up the brakes with the slightest pressure.
new tires fixed that problem.
two-three years tops, is as long as a tire should be used,due to hardening of the compound, and small cracks forming in the side wall.

different compound pads will have different effect, but I would look at the tires first, followed by the condition of the rotors.
If any oil has soaked into the pads, it can make the brakes grabby.

What tires do you have on it, and how old are they?

PS: It could also be all that ice and snow you get up there in Chicago!

[Anonymous]

sound like good brakes to me.

In racing terms the feel you are talking about is called flex. The less flex you have the better. You can go deeper into turns before you apply the brakes. Any brake system can lock up the tire. Its how long the system takes to achieve the right amount of braking the matters. Braided lines, and calipers with more pistons help reduce the flex. If you want mushy brakes, you might want to go back to the original lines, and don't even wory about upgrading the system.

[DJones]

I have Cheng Shin Marquise tires on the front and rear. They are 2 years old but only have about 50 miles on them.

[Hap Call]

Another possible option is to switch to silicon brake fluid. While silicon has better temperature control and does not attract water, it does make the brakes feel a little more mushy (not much but just a little). You should flush the old brake fluid completely. While DOT requires that all DOT rated brake fluids be compatible, it would be best to have only one type of fluid in your system.

You are the first person I have heard say that their brakes are too sensitive on their older GS! Normally, it is the other way around.

Hap

[focus frenzy]

I have Cheng Shin Marquise tires on the front and rear. They are 2 years old but only have about 50 miles on them.

do you see any tiny cracks in the side wall? if so, then it is time for new tires, unpleasant as it is with only fifty miles on them.
I have a Dunlop k491 elite II on the rear of my bike and have 75% tread left, and am about to change it due to age.

[Anonymous]

This is in response to Hap's' recommendation of silicone brake fluid. Sorry but I disagree completely. Silicone has many disadvantages compared to glycol based fluids. First it's true that it doesn't absorb or mix with water, moisture still gets into the system. With glycol the moisture will be suspended in the fluid, in silicone the moisture will separate and go directly to the lowest point in the system, most likely the caliper, and begin corroding the piston. This happened to my GS1100 after less than two years. Second, silicone fluids by nature aren't mushy. As far as I know no liquids will compress unless they're mixed with air or some other gas. If you're not getting a good feel with silicone it's because there's most likely air in the system. Silicone is thicker than glycol and much more difficult to bleed properly. And last, I can't tell you the temperature range of silicone compared to glycol but I can tell you that I've yet to see any silicone fluids recommended for any high performance braking applications. In fact the only factory I know of specifying silicone brake fliud is Harley Davison and you can draw your own conclusions on that.
Axel

[argonsagas]

Try this site for a pretty fair description of the products:

http://www.hotrodheaven.com/tech/brakes/brakes8.htm

[Hap Call]

This is in response to Hap's' recommendation of silicone brake fluid. Sorry but I disagree completely. Silicone has many disadvantages compared to glycol based fluids. First it's true that it doesn't absorb or mix with water, moisture still gets into the system. With glycol the moisture will be suspended in the fluid, in silicone the moisture will separate and go directly to the lowest point in the system, most likely the caliper, and begin corroding the piston. This happened to my GS1100 after less than two years. Second, silicone fluids by nature aren't mushy. As far as I know no liquids will compress unless they're mixed with air or some other gas. If you're not getting a good feel with silicone it's because there's most likely air in the system. Silicone is thicker than glycol and much more difficult to bleed properly. And last, I can't tell you the temperature range of silicone compared to glycol but I can tell you that I've yet to see any silicone fluids recommended for any high performance braking applications. In fact the only factory I know of specifying silicone brake fliud is Harley Davison and you can draw your own conclusions on that.
Axel

Axel, you make some great points. I am religious about changing all the fluids in my vehicles and the brake fluid is one of them. I have never experianced the corrosion you have but I change the fluid every 9 to 12 months, mainly because of fear of some type of contamination due to wear on parts. I have had corrosion problems with regular DOT 3 and DOT 4 fluids as they actually form a corrosive compound with water that eats at the metal. With the high humidity we have around here I prefer to go the silicone route.

As far as the compressability of silicon fluid, the article that Argon mentioned discusses this. Another article also addresses this:

http://www.thebrakeman.com/fluid_tech

The author mentions a DOT 5.1 that sounds interesting.

Hap

[DJones]

thanks for the responses guys, I think I`ll get some Dunlop K491 elites in the Spring.

[saaz]

I agree that the tyres are the likely problem. I have a 78 GS1000 EC with braided lines, GS1100 brake discs, vesrah pads and dog leg brake lever...as good as the brakes are going to be with major changes, but no fear of being overly sensitive!!

I used to use silicone fluid year ago, but modern normal brake fluid is far better than it used to be. I fully change brake fluid once a year minimum.