Head gasket?

[Arkaloid]

Stuck open valve maybe?

[Planecrazy]

I've come up with a cause I think we can all agree on, regardless of what the fix is ... "Gremlins!"

Good luck with it, Buddy!

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Keith,

Are you referring to the vacuum line from the carbs to the petcock? I'll take another look to be sure but it must have been okay since all the carbs had fuel in the floats.

Thanks,
Joe

Yes, I'm talking about the vacuum line from #2 to petcock.
Not because of a fuel flow problem, which there would be, but as an intake leak.
My thinking is a vacuum line can suddenly crack. This wouldn't allow the bike to start (a few pops maybe) and could also explain the strange "removed plugs" sound you heard at the end of the second start attempt.
You would still see plenty of fuel in the bowls remaining from the last time you turned it off (starting it two weeks after your long ride). These latest starting attempts wouldn't have effected the bowls much.
I know it's too easy and simple to be the problem,?, but it fits your symptoms, now that you say your compression reads were probably taken wrong?

[Joe Nardy]

Update:

-Charged battery overnight, has good charge (12.6VDC with the ignition switched on.)

-Starter still sounds funny. (I think.....It could all be in my mind.)

-Removed starter motor, GENTLY cleaned brushes and commutator with 1500 grit sandpaper, cleaned with alcohol. Brushes look kinda short. I'll be ordering a rebuild kit later today.

-Replaced all fuses in fuse panel. Old ones were grooved from being inserted and removed repeatedly. Cost a whole $1.99, why not replace them?

-Turn it over (plugs removed). It sounds better. (I think.....it could all be in my mind)

-Take compression readings again. Much better now, all between 160 and 180 PSI. WHEW! I feel much better now.

-I'm going to do a quick valve clearance check/adjust and put it back together with fresh spark plugs.

-Stay tuned once again..........

Thanks,
Joe

[Joe Nardy]

Well, now I'm happy, pi$$ed off, and confused.


After everything I did the old girl started right up, just like it should have yesterday morning.

So I'm happy that I don't have a major problem. I'm happy that my motor has good compression. I'm also happy that I did find several problems which could have bit me at a more inopportune time.

But I'm pi$$ed that I spent the whole weekend working on it and the only thing I accomplished was to add several items to my GS 'To Do' list. My intentions for this weekend were to get her all spiffed up and ready to go to Vintage Motorcycle Days in a few weeks, as well as do some maintenance on the FJR. Oh well, I guess I'll be spending next weekend in the garage too!

I'm confused because I'm still not sure what fixed or caused the problem. I'm guessing starter motor but it was still turning the motor over and there was still spark so I'm confused as to why it wouldn't fire.

Anyway, I'm now even more intimate with my bike than I was before. I think I know the GS better than I know my wife.

Thanks very much to all who helped out, especially Chiphead, who kept me grounded and kept me from making a small problem into a huge one.

Thanks again,
Joe

[Planecrazy]

Glad you didn't wind up tearing her down unnecessarily, Joe! See you on the road soon!

Regards,

[Boondocks]

Well, now I'm happy, pi$$ed off, and confused.


After everything I did the old girl started right up, just like it should have yesterday morning.

So I'm happy that I don't have a major problem. I'm happy that my motor has good compression. I'm also happy that I did find several problems which could have bit me at a more inopportune time.

But I'm pi$$ed that I spent the whole weekend working on it and the only thing I accomplished was to add several items to my GS 'To Do' list. My intentions for this weekend were to get her all spiffed up and ready to go to Vintage Motorcycle Days in a few weeks, as well as do some maintenance on the FJR. Oh well, I guess I'll be spending next weekend in the garage too!

I'm confused because I'm still not sure what fixed or caused the problem. I'm guessing starter motor but it was still turning the motor over and there was still spark so I'm confused as to why it wouldn't fire.

Anyway, I'm now even more intimate with my bike than I was before. I think I know the GS better than I know my wife.

Thanks very much to all who helped out, especially Chiphead, who kept me grounded and kept me from making a small problem into a huge one.

Thanks again,
Joe

Maybe it was just flooded.:-D

[Rick]

Maybe it was just flooded.:-D

That would account for the faster sounding starter spin as lotsa gas makes for a lubricant on the cylinder walls.
_____________________________________Rick.......

[Boondocks]

That would account for the faster sounding starter spin as lotsa gas makes for a lubricant on the cylinder walls.
_____________________________________Rick.......

Right. If a flooded engine was suspected, pulling the sparkplug(s) right away and inspecting the plug tips for wetness would have confirmed the problem. In any event, turning the engine over without the plugs and installing new plugs would take care of any excess (unvaporized) gas remaining. The fact that it started right up with new, dry plugs would tend to confirm the flooding theory.

[Joe Nardy]

I'm 99.99999999999% sure it was not flooded. I do not touch the throttle when starting this bike. It starts on choke and no throttle just fine. In 23 years I've never flooded this bike. The plugs came out dry. There was no spray of gas when the engine was turned over right after pulling the plugs. There was no gas smell.

I have to believe the starter motor was the main culprit. The dirty commutator and brushes were most likely causing it to spin slower than normal as well as drawing a lot more current than usual from the electrical system.

If it had been flooded it would have started or at least fired on one of the many attempts I made to start it during my marathon troubleshooting session Saturday.

Thanks,
Joe

[chiphead]

Hey I just had a thought on your issue Joe. If I remember correctly, your bike has a starter clutch on the stator end of the crank. I THINK it engages the stator rotor to spin the crank. I don't remember whether the rotor is keyed to the end of the crank or press fit. I vaguley seem to remember seeing some of these spin on the end of the crank due to rapid accel/deaccel. I wonder if yours spun then so it wasn't spinning the motor fast enough to fire (that's maybe why it sounded like it was low on compression) but eventually it dug itself into the end of the crank enough to "fix" itself. Know what I mean? I'm definitely reaching here but I've seen stranger things. Just a thought.

[Joe Nardy]

Hey I just had a thought on your issue Joe. If I remember correctly, your bike has a starter clutch on the stator end of the crank. I THINK it engages the stator rotor to spin the crank. I don't remember whether the rotor is keyed to the end of the crank or press fit. I vaguley seem to remember seeing some of these spin on the end of the crank due to rapid accel/deaccel. I wonder if yours spun then so it wasn't spinning the motor fast enough to fire (that's maybe why it sounded like it was low on compression) but eventually it dug itself into the end of the crank enough to "fix" itself. Know what I mean? I'm definitely reaching here but I've seen stranger things. Just a thought.

Chip,

It's interesting that you mention this. I had a problem with the rotor/starter clutch spinning on the crank years ago. It happened repeatedly until it wore the taper part of the crank down enough so that it would not stay tight. I fixed it by wrapping a piece of feeler gauge stock around the crank. It's been 15 years or so and It has never come loose again...................HOWEVER, the sound it made was very similar to the sound it made when the rotor was spinning on the shaft. That's the first thing I checked. I marked both pieces and the marks did not move. It was not spinning on the shaft I don't think that was the problem either because all the times the rotor started spinning on the crank it NEVER got tighter. Once it got loose it would just spin and not turn the motor over.

Thanks,
Joe

[XXXtra Meat]

Maybe there was some garlic sauce in the motor.](*,) Funny how these things find their way in. :twisted:

-XM

[Joe Nardy]

Maybe there was some garlic sauce in the motor.](*,) Funny how these things find their way in. :twisted:

-XM

Hmmm......come to think of it, there was a strange aroma coming from the bike. Good thing I was wearing a full body comdom as a safety precaution! \\/

Joe

[Joe Nardy]

Further update:

I received a new starter motor brush plate kit and installed it today. Surprisingly, or maybe not so, the commutator on the starter was pretty gunked up again. I've only started the bike a few times since I cleaned the commutator and brushes so the starter motor has probably cranked for less than a minute total. My guess is that the brushes weren't making good contact and were arcing to the commutator. Once I put the new brush plate kit in the starter motor I tested it outside the bike by connecting it directly to the battery. Once installed the bike turns over quickly and starts nicely.

Thanks,
Joe

Maybe there was some garlic sauce in the motor.](*,) Funny how these things find their way in. :twisted:

-XM

P.S. There was no trace of garlic sauce in the starter motor, but there were a few condom wrappers laying in the starter motor cavity..........