I admit defeat

[Anonymous]

I've been trying the last fortnight or so to sort out this problem with my '82 GS750TZ. I was determined to sort it myself but now I admit defeat and I'm going to take it to a mechanic. Before I take her, I'd be grateful to know whether I've at least identified the problem correctly.
The bike's always been difficult to start once the weather gets cold and/or wet. I had the electrics overhauled in the summer by a professional auto electrician which helped a lot but didn't sort it out completely.
Over the last month or so, it's got more and more difficult to start. The first thing I noticed was that it's worse with the choke than without it.
It's always looked as if the throats of the carbs weren't seated properly in the flanges of the air box. But, as the bike was running reasonably OK and because the plugs seemed to be the right colour (a nice light grey) I worked on the principle of "if it aint broke don't fix it". However, it recently got so difficult to start that I dismounted the carbs and tried to re-mount them properly. Nothing worked. Even with the airbox and the carbs off the bike and on the work bench, I still can't get all four carb throats fully inserted into the rubber boots in the airbox. No idea why. This means that the hose clamps are pretty much for decoration.
Now, the bike will only start when I spray carb cleaner into the intakes. There's plenty of back firing and,when the cleaner is burned up, the bike dies.
Given that I've got new spark plugs (properly gapped) I'm assuming the problem is with the carbs. Could the problem I've had with re-mounting the carbs really be the whole trouble or is there likely to be something else wrong as well? If poorly mounted carbs can cause so much trouble, I'm amazed the bike ever ran at all.
I want to take the bike to a mechanic and say "just get it going" but when he quotes me for the work that needs doing, I'd like to know that he's not taking advantage of my pretty obvious ignorance.
If I say, "clean the carbs and re-mount them properly" am I likely to end up with a working bike?
Thanks.

[Anonymous]

your problem is that you worked on it for a fortnight trying to sort it yourself.8O 8O 8O
It is obvious that you are not from brooklyn or you would have woiked on the f@#$%^ ting fer a few days and couldint figger wut wuz rowng.
A couple of things come to mind from your symptoms. the first is did someone fool with the valve adjustment or timing recently. is your compression good(how many miles on the bike)) check your spark just to see if it is strong-- clean all wires and connections to the coils and the plug wires--For starters.---Then put your battery on slow charge every night so when you try in the morning, it is hot and of course be shure the water is topped off.

[argonsagas]

Since your plugs were all of good colour, the running mixture was probably OK.

Do as Scotty says, so your battery is fully charged and can spin the engine quickly at start.

My 1100G is also slow or hard to start when cold. Part of your problem could be that your choke mechanism is off a bit. With the carbs off the bike look it over carefully, and see that all slides catch at the same time. (There is a set-screw for each one)

A mechanic will likely charge you about $100 to do clean your carbs, but I would recommend doing the carbs yourself. You will find a full instruction list on this site. Follow it.

It is very important that the carbs are fully set into the boots as loose fit means you will get air drawn around them, which changes your mixtures.

Spray or wipe silicone on the boots before installation and if they still won't go in, you might try something I do.......go ahead...laugh now.....I use a hammer. No, I don't hit the carbs directly, but I place a 1 x 3 inch piece of wood across all the carbs, lean over and smack the wood with the hammer, usually once on each side of the frame. It is important to have the carbs properly positioned, and they drop right in, fully seated.

[hoyterb]

You're right Ron. "When all else fails get the BFH"! TEMS- it is probably an air leak past the boots.CV type carbs depend on vac to operate properly.If the motor is turning over the way it should it has to be a fuel mix prob or possibly floats sticking.
BTW don't give up yet.There is many people here that can help you sort out the problem.

[argonsagas]

You're right Ron. "When all else fails get the BFH"! TEMS-

BFH ? You must have been peeking....I use a 2 1/2 pound club hammer. It doesn't require a hard swing...just a solid jolt on each side and the carbs are usually in, but a couple of softer jolts is better than a really heavy hit which may damage the carbs.

I tried other methods...push with hands, helper on each side of the bike, 24 inch slide clamp on each side... (works, but it's awkward). I like the hammer....it works RIGHT NOW!


TEMS...he is unquestionably right about the help available. Post your questions and be patient. There are plenty of people here who will help, and they can answer almost anything you ask.

[Anonymous]

If the carbs are fitted properly at the front, this should not be the problem. Not fitting properly at the air box, should not cause a starting problem. It sounds like a choke problem. I think your choke is cable operated. Locate the little rod, on the left side of the carbs, that moves out as you pull the choke knob or lever. After pulling the choke all the way, grip this rod with your fingers and see if it will pull out any farther. If it moves even a slight amount, this could be the problem. Be sure not to give it any throttle at all while cranking. If the bike has ever sat for an extended period, one or more of the choke circuits could be clogged. All four must be clear and fuel must flow thru them properly. If the pilot jets have not been changed, the next time you have the carbs off replace the stock pilots with the next size larger. Don't worry, they won't make it run too rich, but it will make it start easier. Good luck

[Anonymous]

Sticking floats

You're right Ron. "When all else fails get the BFH"! TEMS- it is probably an air leak past the boots.CV type carbs depend on vac to operate properly.If the motor is turning over the way it should it has to be a fuel mix prob or possibly floats sticking.
BTW don't give up yet.There is many people here that can help you sort out the problem.

Thanks for all your replies. Hoyterb's looks like it might be significant. When I had the carbs off the bike I sprayed carb cleaner in all over the place. Don't know whether this was a good idea, but I also took the vacuum cleaner to the carbs, thinking to suck out any junk that was in there. I noticed that, as I hoovered the 'airbox' side of the carbs these metal tubes rose up. As I changed the angle of the Hoover pipe, those tubes fell again - all except for one of them. Eventually, that came down again too. Would I be right that those are the floats and that one of them is sticking? How significant is that and what do I do. I'm really trying to avoid taking the carbs apart but am coming round to thinking that I'm really going to have to.
BTW would a BFH be a big f%*!@*# hammer? Over the last couple of weeks when I've been saying things like "bless my soul, you are something of a trial to me" and "what the sun, the moon and the stars is making you so difficult to start?" I've sometimes thought of using a BFH.

[argonsagas]

No, TEMS, those are not the floats.

It appears that you are in real need of a picture or two to help.

On this site there is a very thorough pictorial description of Suzuki carbs
and how to clean them,

I would suggest reading it very thoroughly, print it even, then read it again, before doing anything more. They are sensitive in many areas, so you have to be careful in how you handle them, what tools you use, and how you use them.


The carb repair section is very well done, and very informative. You will learn the names of the parts and what some of them do, and you will learn why I said some parts are very sensitive.

Yes, you got the BFH interpretation right, but you do NOT NEED to use the BFH.

You must have the carbs properly positioned, snug against the boots, before putting any pressure on them, whether you push them, or fit a piece of wood against them and hit that, as I mentioned.


Having the carbs properly positioned against the boots means a great deal. It would probably be best if you asked someone else to help hold the parts in place when you apply pressure.

Use silicone spray or liquid as a lubricant.

It appears your knowledge and experience is a bit less than what I first thought, so it would be best for you to read and understand the site section on carbs before doing anything else.

Don't get stressed about it. No matter what your question is, ASK IT.

We have all learned from experience, but we all started with nothing and I think it's fair to say we have all made mistakes.

[Anonymous]

Thanks again

I'll take another look at the carb cleanup series. Believe it or not I have looked at it before but that was a very long time ago! This is a very frustrating business. I'll give you an example - my Clymer manual says "Carefully remove the main jet and washer" it has a picture with a big arrow pointing at the right bits (big arrows are good). Then it says to slide out the needle jet and later to remove the needle valve assembly. No pictures and no arrows. If we need a picture for the main jet, why not for the rest?

[argonsagas]

Re: Thanks again

I'll take another look at the carb cleanup series. Believe it or not I have looked at it before but that was a very long time ago! This is a very frustrating business. I'll give you an example - my Clymer manual says "Carefully remove the main jet and washer" it has a picture with a big arrow pointing at the right bits (big arrows are good). Then it says to slide out the needle jet and later to remove the needle valve assembly. No pictures and no arrows. If we need a picture for the main jet, why not for the rest?

Good point, TEMS. Problem with some parts of Clymer is that the author pre-supposes that you have knowledge of the job and are looking for pointers to assist you. For many people, however, that does not apply, and they can only get frustrated or end up not doing the job properly.

In my own case, I read the section about how to remove the rear wheel (shaft drive) and could not follow it. Found an easier way to do it, instead.
Now that I have bags and carrier, it won't be easy at all, as they will have to come off to do the job.

The on-site GS carb section is pretty good, and you will learn from it.

If you decide to do a full cleaning, leave yourself LOTS of time. And have a clean, bright area to work in. It would help to have clean and bright surface to work on, as well, because some of the parts are very small, and the tiny springs love to live up to their name. You need them, so don't lose them.

A magnetic parts dish is about the best thing I have found for keeping small springs and bearings from disappearing.

Remember, please, disassemble/clean/reassemble ONE carb at a time only. Needles and seats, if needed, can be ordered, but you may be able to clean them up. If the seats are OK but the needles look cruddy, you can wash them in solvent, or VERY lightly sand them using a wet-type paper of 300 grit, (or higher number) with plenty of water.

You will need a small pin punch to remove the keeper. A nail that has been blunted will also do the job. Make sure you have no burr left on it.

For all set screws, have a piece of paper and pen/pencil handy.

VERY carefully back out each set screw and count EXACTLY how many turns and partial turns it takes. Do it in quarter turn increments. Write it down.

This will aid you when reassembling, as you already know the settings were not far off, since your plugs showed good colour.

After assembly you seat the screws and back them off to the same limits.

Remember to seat them V E R Y lightly, and then back them off. Too much pressure when turning them in can cause damage. Be sure the springs are on them.

I use a can of pressurized carb spray, with a long nozzle, and blow from the engine side or the carb to clean out any tiny debris. Wear goggles if you do this.

Happy New Year!

[Anonymous]

Not to say that a good cleaning couldn't help, but have you tested your petcock to see if you're gettting fuel to the carbs? It seems to me that if you can spray carb cleaner into it and it fires, but dies when the cleaner is burned off, then you're not getting fuel. Same for the choke making the starting problem worse - the choke circuit enriches the fuel mixture and limits the air intake. If you're fuel starved in the first place, and then try to enrich the mixture further, it stands to reason that the starting problem would be exacerbated....

I'd check the petccock and fuel lines, and possibly try cranking it without the filler cap on to rule out vacuum inside the tank as I've seen mentioned before.


Just a thought. Hope you get it sorted!

[Anonymous]

Just say no

to the BFH. Sorry to disagree with some of you but force always seems to damage something. I boiled the little rubber pieces, installed them on the head, rotated them just right so they were all lined up and the new carbs slid right on.

I found that inner vs outer does not matter on a GS1100E also.

Just posting this so that others that are having trouble can use this someday.