Tires/Rims/Tubes Q&A

[suzukizone]

Tires/Rims/Tubes Q&A

Just a flaky guess while I'm up too late & brain muddled. Somehow they ended up with more tube type fronts than rears & rather than throw them out or use them as fake UFO's they began producing tubeless rears before they ran out of tube-type fronts. But just a shot in the dark.

[Grandpa]

The old star-shaped wheels that are not stamped "tubeless" will interchange with the newer tubeless wheels.

If you have a 79 thru 81 GS850G or GL, for example, you may get a tubeless wheel designed for an 82 GS850G or GL, or GS1100G or GL, and install it on your older bike. It will bolt right up. This is a viable solution for those who prefer running tubeless tires at both ends.

[witttom]

Interesting thread I've started here. Hehe... I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one scratching my head and mumbling "Hmm... I wonder why... ?". Hehe... and to think that I thought I was asking a newbie question that was probably already answered in a FAQ somewhere.

Hoping to have my new tube in hand today during my lunch break, and with a little luck, have the tire mounted before the end of the week.

[koolaid_kid]

I've had several GS's with a tubeless rear and tube- type front. Why do you think the factory used tubes on the tube- type wheels? That's the more important question than can I 'get away with' running them tubeless.

Having worked many years at a company that produces consumer products, I can tell you that the bean counters track every, and I mean every, cent during the entire phase of a product. If they could have gotten away with not having to (a) qualify the tube, (b) purchase the tube, (c) stock the tube, (d) insert and inflate the tube, (e) ship spare tubes to the dealers, etc., etc., they would have done it to save money and increase profits.
Until you work in the environment, you do not realize how much it costs end-to-end to have another part in the system. If Suzuki could have done without it, they would have done so from the start.
Stepping off the soap box now...

[mark]

Looks like I better get the tubes put on. I wasn't trying to save money, really thought it didn't make any difference. Shows what happens when you think you know something.

Sometimes you have to listen to a preacher.

[JMHJ]

A little info. from the Suzuki factory owner's manual (for a tubeless bike): tubeless tires have passed rigid testing, and have certain self-sealing characteristics that the tube-type don't; inspect them or the rim carefully if t.p. has dropped (which would seem good advice tubed or tubeless). So maybe the big diff. is in the tires as opposed to the rims.

[Pharkmeh]

I use these suckaz - and they hold pretty well - wet or dry @ the right price



Bridgestone Spitefire S11
100/90 + 130/90

[txironhead]

Those rims look just like the ones I had on my '85 Shadow VT700C.... damn I miss that bike......

[Jethro]

I run tubeless in my mags, but they need air every few days. Tubeless is much easier to field repair and plug if you pick up a nail or something.

[witttom]

I use these suckaz - and they hold pretty well - wet or dry @ the right price



Bridgestone Spitefire S11

That's the tires I went with. I've been very happy with them so far.

[ptm]

A little info. from the Suzuki factory owner's manual (for a tubeless bike): tubeless tires have passed rigid testing, and have certain self-sealing characteristics that the tube-type don't; inspect them or the rim carefully if t.p. has dropped (which would seem good advice tubed or tubeless). So maybe the big diff. is in the tires as opposed to the rims.

Here's an old thread on the topic that appears to validate that. Earl did some detailed measurements of a rim marked tubeless and one that wasn't and found no difference. The main problem was/is that some of the rims are more porous and the air leaked out within a few days or weeks. This same thread has instructions about how to seal a rim that is too porous.

Interesting reading regardless where you stand on this 'issue'.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=73719

[themess]

I run tubeless in my mags, but they need air every few days. Tubeless is much easier to field repair and plug if you pick up a nail or something.

Something is very wrong. I once had a set of tires installed with new steel valve stems that were so tall that while I could use a pressure gauge, I couldn't fit in a chuck to add air. The tires wore out after 40,000 miles, and had only lost about 2 psi. Motorcycle tires should hold air almost as long.

Spritz the tire, wheel and valve with soapy water and find your leak!

[Nessism]

Something is very wrong. I once had a set of tires installed with new steel valve stems that were so tall that while I could use a pressure gauge, I couldn't fit in a chuck to add air. The tires wore out after 40,000 miles, and had only lost about 2 psi. Motorcycle tires should hold air almost as long.

Spritz the tire, wheel and valve with soapy water and find your leak!

It is normal for a tire to loose a couple psi per month so your experience is not typical.

I've read through this thread, and that other one posted by Ptm, and have some thoughts on this subject...as I always do.

It seems clear that when the switch from tube to tubeless occured there was at least a subtle change to the rim profile. This makes sense to me since breaking the bead loose on a tubeless tire is a major bear compared to tube type plus, there is always a loud POP when the tire jumps over the inner lip and seats.

This inner lip seems to be a safety device to keep the tire on the rim in case of deflation. In this respect, tubeless is safer than tube type which does not have this retaining device. So if we run tubeless on our old GS tube-type rims, we don't get this extra safety device but then, we never had it to begin with so no loss.

I'm leaning toward support of tubeless on a tube type rim as long as the rim is not too porus to hold air. Epoxy sealing seems like a possible solution but quite a bit of work considering the minor benifit.

Just my opinion.

[Footy.]

I run tubeless tyres on my 78 GS750, which i think was the first to run the "mag" type wheels. I initially had a small leak on the front, and had to add air every week.

But i have since added ultraseal, for it's puncture protection.

http://www.tyreprotect.co.uk/puncture_prevention_products.html

Now the front hasn't lost any air for months. I think something like ultraseal is a must for motorcycles anyway, and it solves any porosity into the bargain.

Footy.

[mark]

This has been a helpful thread inspite of the difference of opinion. I actually found out a few things on my bike. I have one rim marked "tubeless" on my bike....never even knew it. So obviously it doesn't need a tube there. My front tire rim doesn't have that marking so I assume that it was designed for a tube (although it doesn't have a tube on it now and didn't when I bought new tires).

Nessism's argument works for me. The deflation safety issue would apply whether the tire had a tube in it or not. So while a "tubeless" rim might be somewhat safer if the tire has no air, it seems, overall, like a minor issue. The front does lose air a little quicker, but only to a small degree.

So, along with the fact that all the shops I've checked with say that its not much of an issue, I've changed my mind and will remain tubless.