82 GS1100E - Starter Clutch gear question

[staschman]

I think I have an issue with my starter clutch or the bearings for the main starter clutch gear.

I'm waiting for a rotor puller source in a separate thread to pull things apart and inspect the starter clutch.

The engine starts and runs just fine. There is a constant whirring / rattling noise directly tied to engine rpm in the lower left hand side of the engine. It is NOT related to the clutch as I've isolated the noise as happening with the clutch removed while replacing the clutch basket bolts. Ran it for just a couple seconds with clutch out, noise still there.

Stator cover is removed. I can wiggle the main starter gear behind the rotor from left to right. Should this be? Does this sound like the needle bearings and / or the 3 bolts that hold the starter clutch to the rotor?

[Dink]

Does the bike still start with the starter?
It sounds like it may the bolts on the starter clutch, may be only one or two gone, or on there way.

Dink

[staschman]

<< Does the bike still start with the starter?
It sounds like it may the bolts on the starter clutch, may be only one or two gone, or on there way >>

Thanks Dink, Yes the bike still starts and runs fine. If it is the bolts I'm sure it will be obvious once I get it apart?

[staschman]

OK, got a puller from PartsNMore. Rotor is now off as well as starter clutch, the large gear and needle bearings.

The three allen bolts that hold the starter clutch to the rotor are not loose whatsoever.

I have the factory service manual which does not picture nor mention the large idler gear with the two sets of needle bearings.

Not sure what to check or proceed on here.

Before taking the rotor off, I was able to wiggle this gear left and right. Should this play be in there?

Do I replace the 2 sets of needle bearings? What about the large gear?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[staschman]

Anybody out there have some input for a GS'r with an '82 GS1100EZ starter clutch question?

[Dink]

When you removed the starter clutch did three rollers and springs fallout of the middle?? These rollers wear flat, replacements are available.
You should not be able to turn the starter gear both ways, it should go right but should grab and turn the crank to the left.

Dink

[staschman]

Hi Dink,

The 'ratchet' part of the gear works just fine. I'm trying to describe 'right and left' as a slight back and forth on the shaft. (Edit: I would call what you are describing as 'front to back'.)

When grabbing the top of the gear and pulling it to the left and right of the bike itself, there is a small amount of play there and I'm wondering if that is something that should be addressed. I hope I'm making sense.

Regards.

[BadBillyB]

Re-install your cover with everything removed from the end of the crank. Push start the bike and see if the noise is gone. If it isn't, your barking up the wrong tree. Bike will run fine for at least 30 minutes with no charging system..........BadBillyB

[Dink]

Good advice Billy, I second that suggestion.

Dink

[staschman]

OK, its taken a little time to get at it, but I removed starter clutch and gear (everything) from left side of crank, and push started the bike to get motor started.

The noise is still there. Thanks BadBillyB and Dink for the great advise there.

I know for sure what the noise is NOT:

right side: not the clutch
left side: not the starter clutch, idler gear or starter gear.

Don't think its cam chain or tensioner, as I've replaced the rear curved cam chain guide and reset the tensioner some time back, with no change in the noise before and after.

Need some technical advise, and perhaps some moral support to continue on with this.

Still faced with what source of the noise could be. It has to be in the front of the engine.

Bad crank bearing? Some on the site have suggested this is unlikely.
Piston slap or conrod bearings?

I'm not a bike mechanic guru by any stretch, although I am game to tear it apart under the right circumstances.

If I do tear into this, if it going to be worth the $$ to fix?

I'm wondering if there is a knowledgeable GS'r within reasonable distance from me, that I could trailer the bike to, and let them have a listen. I am in the Flint, Michigan area.

The alternative is to sell the bike as is, or part it out. It is a very nice looking bike, in very nice shape. Lots of good stuff on it. I just hate the thought of cannibalizing it though.

[Can_O_Tuna]

Did you check and see if the cap screws (allen bolts) were tight? They can snap off and still be embedded in the housing



Ask me how I know #-o

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=76985

I farted around with mine and put new bolts in twice...new roller bearings in and springs...Finally I just bought a whole new unit...It's been fine ever since.

I hate to come in this late after you put everything back together, but if its only the starter clutch it will save you a lot of headaches trying to find a phantom noise. What was going on when you first heard the noise?

If the bike was not starting and you were cranking and cranking (thats what I did) it stresses the clutch and something breaks. The second or was it third? time it broke I was doing 75 mph and I could feel it bind up and snap the bolts..and then the rocks in a box noise came back.

Good Luck

[staschman]

Can_O_Tuna, Thanks for the reply.

Yes, the 3 allen starter clutch bolts were secure.

However, I don't believe it can possibly be the starter clutch as I bump started the bike with the entire starter clutch assembly removed from the shaft. It was completely removed from the engine, yet the noise was still the same.

Back when this all started, the noise began to manifest itself intermittently, then all the time. The noise is directly related to Engine RPM's, whether in gear or not (doesn't matter which gear), bike underway or not, clutch engaged or not engaged.

Clutch and starter clutch have been isolated out as the bike has been run without either of these attached to isolate them out of contention, noise still there.

The bike starts normally with the starter clutch installed.

Seems to me that it has to be in the front of the engine. Any other ideas?

[Can_O_Tuna]

I read your posts too fast...:roll: Sorry I wasn't able to help.

Maybe Brian or Earl might have an idea on this.

[Dink]

Get a long handled screwdriver and use it like a stethoscope, to narrow down exactly where it is comming from.
From your description it is almost definetely crank related.If it isa crank bearing it is gonabe expensive, try a second hand engine instead.

Dink

[Can_O_Tuna]

How about making a video of the bike and put a mic close enough to hear the noise... Just a thought