Are there any VM-28mm KZ1000 carbs with two mixture screws?

[Dan Ruddock]

Like it says anybody know? I like the idea of going to the bigger carb for my GS1000 but all the KZ1000 carbs I have looked at had only the air bleed screw and no fuel screw. IMO the suzuki setup with two screws is better and more tuneable giving you the ability to tune idle mixture and part throttle mixture separately. Dan

[Dan Ruddock]

bump for Keith

[mafd2]

Check with this guy. www.wgcarbs.com. He specializes in KZ and GS carbs. I purchased a set of carbs for my 77' GS750 from him. They were Kz carbs that had only one screw. The bike never ran better. You can have your carbs rebuilt or you can purchase a set ready to bolt on. He puts them on a test bike and synchronizes and sets them to insure proper function. You won't have to do much when you get them. This guy is amazing with those carbs. Check him out. You won't be dissapointed.

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Dan, I don't think the absence of the pilot fuel screw on some VM's make them harder to tune. Maybe a little less versatility that will force you to go up on the pilot jet in some cases. Many of the 28 VM's have the accelerator pump to add that little bit of fuel that may be needed.
I don't have enough experience with swapping the 26's for 28's on GS's to say if it's worth the trouble. I think your biggest problem would re-jetting the 28's, not if the 28's have a pilot fuel screw or not. If the rest of the bike is stock I see no way to take advantage of the larger carbs either. If I went with larger carbs, I'd hold out for a set of 29 smoothbores. Even on a stock bike, I've heard good things about running 29's on a 1000, and smoothies on a 1000 with pod/pipe, etc, is the perfect match.
As for Wiredgeorge's link, he's come around here once in awhile and seems to know his stuff.....most of the time. I'm assuming he's worked on a lot of carbs and could give you any added info you may want. His main reason to come around is to drum up business but I have nothing against that and don't mean to sound critical. He's passed on some good info. On a few past occasions he's tried to imply that my advice and sometimes others advice wasn't good but when I called him out after "correcting" me he didn't respond. I've always considered that an attempt at trying to get people to go with his rebuilt carbs instead of using advice here and learning to repair their own. I may be wrong.
If you should get some carbs through him just be aware his jetting set up may not work just because he says so.
Also, it surprises me that he tries to add a little frill by saying he vacuum synchs the carbs you'll get on his test bike. Total waste of time. The carbs MUST be synched on the bike they're going on. In fact, re-adjusting them as he says will actually screw up the bench synch he must first do. You'd be best off just having them bench synched. He's trying to impress those with less carb knowledge. I just don't like others thinking their carbs are vacuum synched upon installation, where they may actually be way off but people trust his method.
I do believe he knows how to send you some nice clean carbs with fresh o-rings, etc. I'm sure a fair deal. Just be aware you must vacuum synch and then test to see if any jetting set up he installs really works. Don't just take anyones word as meaning "they're done". Same goes for my jetting advice at this site. They should always be considered suggestions, not guarantees.

[wiredgeorge]

Wow, such a personal attack from someone who has never seen my work and doesn't know me is astounding. Did I at some point offend Mr. Krause's ego by disagreeing with some point he was making?

Mr. Krause, you make comments regarding carb synchronization. I have two carb test bikes and both have EXTREMELY consistant compression. Compression, as I am sure you know, is the basis for consistant vacuum on all cylinders and allows very accurate syncrhonization. If a customer has inconsistant compression, then surely they would benefit from synchronizing on their own bike but by in large, the set up that I send does nicely until they resync their carbs in the next tune up cycle. The set up I send to a customer is consistantly able to make their bikes run quite nicely. The purpose of a "bench sync" by the way is to adjust the slides into the middle of the range of slide operation relative to the idle adjust screw is and not to actually ensure they are all perfectly even. That function is done via guages on a running bike...

As far as my jetting set ups not working because I "say so", well, I rebuilt and sold about 450 sets of VM and BS carburetors last year. About 60 percent were rejetted for specific customer applications like pods or aftermarket pipes, etc. I had VERY few customers come back to me and say the jetting was not spot on. Most of the jetting issues I run into are from the use of open exhaust, by the way.

Last, you said you called me out? By "implication" are you saying that if I do not agree with you, you are going to "call me out"? If I get called out and don't know I get called out, does that still count as being called out? Bwhahahaa - I don't stop in here often because I have other places to be as well but I certainly hope that if I get "called out" again in the future, it will be done more effectively so at least I know I was "called out". FWIW: I am a moderator on KZRider.com and spend much of my time there.

Mr. Krause! Help me put your expertise in perspective. How many carburetor assemblies did you rebuild or repair last year? How many did you tune or rejet? I am not talking about giving advice, I am talking about the actual doing? I suppose there are other ways to build up expertise; such as demeaning others but most folks don't put much stock in that method.

Geesh, this site can make a person tired... I am truly sorry I stopped in.

[KEITH KRAUSE]

I'm guessing the reason you stopped by is because someone told on me?:roll:
I don't think anything I said was untrue. I also didn't type it trying to "attack" you either. You're easily threatened for some reason. Don't worry, there's plenty of people around who won't work on their own carbs even with step by step advice that this site encourages.
You come around here to make money, plain and simple. Do I think there's something wrong with that? No, I don't. You offer people an option. If they choose to have their carbs done by you, or anyone else, that's their business.
Do I know you? Of course not. But I have put your name out there several times in a positive light because it's obvious you have experience and can do the job the typical member needs to have done. What gets me is when I read misleading statements. I read some awhile back. I mentioned them in the various threads and you gave no reply. Since then, I still say positive things about you and if I also say something negative, it's because it's justified. If you can't handle that and choose to think my typed words are an attack...oh well.
As for calling you out, I meant when you, or anyone gives advice that's incorrect, I say something and expect to discuss it. You commonly say something and disappear. If the reason is because you simply leave the thread because you have other things to do, then it's my mistake and I apologize. I frequently read comments here that are meant only to antagonize or to "show someone up".
As for attacks, I could say you've targeted me in some past threads. You didn't mention my name as far as I read, but it was obvious your advice was intended to make the reader disregard mine. It's a public forum and they can decide for themselves.
As for jetting, carb synchs and experience with carbs...
Jetting: I don't count the number of carbs as you do but I'd guess 20 to 30 street bikes over the years. Several more dirt bikes. I've helped with many more...not counting this site. I'm sure a lot of others have tinkered with the same amount, if not more. I don't think big numbers mean a damn thing as long as you've learned the correct way to do the work. I've had a fair share of trial and error and that's how you learn. I pass on my experience here and I enjoy helping others. I've also offered several times to rebuild or troubleshoot or re-jet a members carbs for NOTHING. I've been on the phone many hours doing the same thing. I keep in the spirit of what this site is all about...helping others. I don't come around to make money.
Carb synching: read my posts and you tell me if I'm doing it wrong. Also, quit saying it's beneficial to the customer to vacuum synch the carbs on a bike that the carbs aren't going to be running on. That's just dumb and you look silly trying to defend it. Those are the kind of comments that make me say something. I take things too seriously to just let it go and I'll always say something if it's not true. And the purpose for a bench synch? It's to set the carbs as uniform as possible in advance of a synch with a vacuum tool. Read any factory service manual.
Experience with carbs: Not as much rebuild experience as you claim but I'm not trying to do it as a business either. If you think that doing hundreds makes you better at it, then think what you want. It's not about numbers, it's about how you do the work. I hope you don't argue that too.
As for your jetting and how you've sent out large numbers of re-jetted carbs done "spot on"... from what I've read in the past, you make simple basic mistakes such as suggesting to leave the jet needle position stock when the member clearly has a lean mixture at 1/3 throttle because he's switched to pods/pipe. If you jet the same way you give advice, I seriously doubt your claims. I think a lot of your customers simply trust your judgement and consider the carbs done. If I were to actually ride some of these customers bikes, I know I'd see problems that some of them aren't even aware of due to lack of experience with a correctly running bike or not knowing how much better the bike should run with any mod's. I would think that many of your carbs are jetted well enough and some may be spot on as you say, but in many cases the carbs are just marginally set and you tell the customer what they want to hear. Jetting has too many variables to have the luck you claim. Jetting involves testing and you jet each bike one at a time and results will differ until you make corrections. I've had several members here say I got their jetting right the first time. That's great. But I honestly wonder sometimes if the bike is REALLY running correctly. Yeah, they say it runs great, but did they test and take plug reads, etc? Maybe, maybe not.
To close this, I didn't mean for my typed words to sound as bad as you took them. Typed words can be taken much worse than intended. I didn't say a thing that's untrue. If you're offended, welcome to the club. I come here to help others in any way I can. My posts speak for themselves. I've coached a member for WEEKS trying to help with a problem. Thanks is all I ask when it's done.

[wiredgeorge]

First, I stand by my work and the feedback from my hundreds of customers speaks for itself. Second, I don't visit this site often and look in because I enjoy chatting about vintage bikes. I owned a GS1100E from 1983-1998 and put about 200K miles on the bike. Also, you are incorrect regarding synchronization of carburetors. You wrote:

"Carb synching: read my posts and you tell me if I'm doing it wrong. Also, quit saying it's beneficial to the customer to vacuum synch the carbs on a bike that the carbs aren't going to be running on. That's just dumb and you look silly trying to defend it. Those are the kind of comments that make me say something. I take things too seriously to just let it go and I'll always say something if it's not true. And the purpose for a bench synch? It's to set the carbs as uniform as possible in advance of a synch with a vacuum tool. Read any factory service manual."


I am certainly not going to "read your posts" but will comment on your saying "That's just dumb". Almost all GS and KZ motorcycles have vacuum ranges of 20-30 PSI at the intake. Each manual explains that the carburetors should be within a specific range which varies some based on venturi size and compression but most fall within the range specified. They mainly find fault with variation between the carburetors with regard to vacuum. If carburetors can be sync'd on a machine where all four cylinders have equal vacuum and fall within the general range and within the variance spec, then the carburetors are generically synchronized and are in a state of tune where they will work fine on about 95 percent of the motorcycles they are installed on. They are not optimized for a particular motorcycle since many engines will have compression readings which vary between cylinders but if the variance is within tolerances specified in any service manual, the synchronization spec (variance between measured PSI in any cylinder) will also be within spec for any given motorcycle. If you don't trust this "theory", check it out in real life. I have. I put a lot of work into what I do.

As far as jetting, it is more art than science but when you find a combination of jetting that works for a certain type of carburetor, air box and pipe set up, this set up will work consistantly almost without exception. Different jet needles/needle jet combinations produce different results as far as reclipping. Given the dynamics of the different sized needle jets and varying taper of the various jet needles, jetting in mid-range is as much a matter of trial and error which becomes experience, as anything else. You may not agree with my jetting recommendations but there is some experience behind much of it. I may not be correct 100 percent of the time but my recommendations are based on hundreds of rejetted sets of carburetors. I seldom make recommendations for situations I am unfamiliar with.

As far as WHY I don't hang out on this site continually... I visit many sites. I have a Vintage Motorcycle Tech Forum on my own web site, I visit the Kawasakimotorcycle.org forum regularly, the Z1/Z900 Worldwide Owners Community, the Kawasaki Triples forum, the Vulcan Riders and Owners Club forum, the GPz550 forum and several others on occasion. I am also a moderator on the KZRider.com forum which is very similar in content/make up to this forum and that keeps me pretty busy. I do my best to glimpse at the tech sections of all these forums and answer questions, as I am able. Quite frankly, my business is pretty brisk and I really shouldn't spend the time but enjoy tech forums immensely. Since the GS is so similar to the KZ, I probably understand the GS almost as well its Kawasaki cousins since the GS engine (GS1000) was a copy of the Z1/KZ900... did you folks know that a GS1000 cylinder head is a drop-in fit on the KZ900 engine? Only needs some modification to accomodate the cam chain... anyway... I have typed enough.

[rustybronco]

Well i'm no expert but i have worked on about 150+ carbs over the years (l.p., small engine, car, race, bike) i helped one of our tech's at work today with his first carb a vm14? (kids today with only f.i. experence) I enjoy all opinions, there is always something to learn from each person whether or not i agree with them, keep lurking george.

[1150bob]

well if you tweak those 2 loose screws (Keith & George) you seem to get a real good performance.

[Dan Ruddock]

Thanks George and Keith I have decided to stick with the 26mm Suzuki carbs I really like the two screw setup not just for the two screws but for the two progression holes in the carb body that are independently and infinitely adjustable because screws adjust them and not fixed jet sizes. Plus the two holes are placed on either side of the slide, one hole for idle and the other for small throttle cruzing. I am sure I will be able to get better mpg numbers with the suzuki carb over the kawasaki carb. Here is how I adjust my screws.

What has worked well for my VM carbs is this, I set the air screws two full turns out and adjusted the idle mixture with the lower fuel screws (fastest idle) then if you have a off idle flat or lean spot turn the air screws in a 1/4 turn at a time until it goes away. You will have to re adjust the fuel screws each time you turn the air screws. Don't turn the fuel screws all the way in, they have a nasty habbit of breaking the tips off. Also the motor must be fully warmed up for flat spot testing and use plug readings as a tuning tool. Dan

[KEITH KRAUSE]

So you have a website, visit websites, ride with clubs and rebuild hundreds of carbs. I have a website, visit websites, support this site, worked at two cycle shops in my 20's, ride with my friends and have jetted and rebuilt enough carbs to know exactly what I'm doing. I don't know who you're trying to impress George but I hope it's not me. No, I think you're after the money... I mean the bike owners. Specifically, owners who either don't have the knowledge, the tools, the time, or are just plain afraid of taking a set of carbs apart.
I don't blame them, or you. Carb and electrical problems scare heck out of a lot of people. You can't send in the bike so easily but you can send in the carbs. And like I said before, you offer an option for these people. You see the potential out there to make money, set up a website and start advertising. Nothing wrong with that, as long as it's honest and all true. That's where I come in and you get angry.
I take this stuff seriously enough to say something. I have my own little niche at this website and I'm only interested in helping people, most of whom I'll never meet, because I care about them. If they don't understand or can't see something wrong then I try to show them. I've also learned a lot from them. If I see something that's BS, the least I can do is mention it so they can have more info to make up their own minds. That's what I'm doing and you don't like it. Let me tell you what I don't like.
I don't like false statements made by you in an attempt to gain a customer.
How do you make false statements? You tell these people their carbs will come back correctly vacuum synched, correctly jetted and any mixture/fuel/air screws set correctly. In reality, you rebuild the carbs and ballpark set the jetting and screws. You also claim the carbs are vacuum synched on a test bike. Then you road test them. I've told you before what a waste of time that is and you still defend it. To each their own.
You're the first and only person I've ever heard of that thinks he can vacuum synch carbs on one bike and then say they'll hold that synch when installed on another bike. Vacuum is too sensitive for that. You against the world George. Also, the air/fuel/mixture screws must be set on the bike the carbs are going on, not a test bike. They effect performance too much to be ballpark set on a test bike and then expected to work correctly on the owners bike. And your custom jetting? You run around the neighborhood and call it good? Your test bike has the same filters, pipe, pistons, cams, etc, that the owners bike has? I actually find it hard to believe you bother with this stuff. I don't really think you vacuum synch the carbs on a test bike. I don't think you road test them on a test bike. I don't think you always replace ALL the inner o-rings or a marginally worn part either after giving it more thought. I mean, you know the vacuum synch would be useless. And why bother to test the jetting when "it always works" as you say. No, I think you clean and rebuild the carbs, what's needed, put in the ballpark jets and send 'em.
I don't like how you take advantage of people. How do you take advantage of them? First, let's mock up the typical potential customer that sees your website. They have one or more of the following: little or no carb knowledge, little or no mechanical ability, no tools, including no vacuum gauge, no time, are on a tight budget, cringe at the thought of re-jetting, don't think they can vacuum synch, are looking for the mythical all-in-one-carb-service. They see your site and read your claims. They believe what you say. They think, "all I have to do is send them in and they'll come back perfect. I won't have to buy a vacuum gauge or go through the re-jet nightmare I've heard about". Right. The vast majority of these customers won't correctly check your work, if they check it at all. Many of them are used to bikes that have running problems, if they bought them running at all. They truly don't know the power their model is supposed to have. Many have never owned a bike at all. Ballpark jetting and screw settings and incorrect synching, if done at all, will be a big improvement for many of these customers. That's what clean, rebuilt carbs can do for a bike. They'll be happy with the bike but don't tell me they're all running correctly and to their full potential. Not with carbs serviced by you George. Running good enough for these kinds of customers? Sure. But not better than that. You got testimonials? What does that prove considering the above customers?
That's what makes me speak up George. False advertising. Taking advantage. Telling people what they want to hear. It doesn't work on me George. I've been around too long. So have others that don't send their carbs to you or anyone. These people are willing to learn and do the job themselves. Carbs are easy to work on for the average person. Some people just need a little more help and confidence. We try to help here. It's what this site is about. I care enough about the members here to say something. Always will.
So get defensive George. Tell 'em what they want to hear. Sugarcoat the real story. It's about money, right? Something like $100,000 this year alone? 450 plus carbs at $209 or more each? Bet you're paying the taxes as you should, huh George? No, I'm paying your taxes. So are the rest of us who are honest. The IRS has built in thievery and tax evasion into the tax table formulas.

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Glad we could help you Dan. Any questions, just ask.
Didn't mean for this to turn into a me vs him thing but I always speak up, right or wrong.
I truly believe what I posted though. Truth ticks some people off.
Keep it straight. No BS. If someone hands you their money then, so be it.

[chef1366]

Now now Keith, don't make yourself sick. You spent several weeks with me on my carbs. You were patient and detailed and now I'm an expert with my BS carbs. You taught me plug chops, jetting and jet needle adjustment. Now I share this knowledge with others and hopefully they do the same. That's what this site is for. You are a very nice person and everyone here respects you. Hopefully I told you how much I appreciated your help.

Wiredgeorge, get some sleep;-) You provide a good service for people who don't want to or have the time to work on their carbs and are willing to spend the extra money.

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Now now Keith, don't make yourself sick. You spent several weeks with me on my carbs. You were patient and detailed and now I'm an expert with my BS carbs. You taught me plug chops, jetting and jet needle adjustment. Now I share this knowledge with others and hopefully they do the same. That's what this site is for. You are a very nice person and everyone here respects you. Hopefully I told you how much I appreciated your help.

Thanks for the compliment. It's much appreciated.

[jknappsax]

Keith is a national treasure!

Keith, though you and I have never met, and only corresponded a few times, I've subscribed to every thread that you've given carb tuning advice in, as I'm getting ready to go through this process with a GS 1000 with headers and pods that I just got. And I fully expect to refer to your post MILLIONS of times. Thank you from us all for your knowledge and help and friendship. I'm not slagging Wiredgeorge, I'm just expressing gratitude for all you've done for many of us. Thanks.