What probably happened to my oil level?

[GregM.]

My 850 sitting all night on centerstand on level garage floor. Before starting, I noticed the oil level was right below the "low" line... just barely above the window bottom.

So, I added oil. Started with a fresh qt. (same stuff that's in there). Poured in 1/4... then 1/2 a bottle. Waited 10 min... It's barely half way up the window. It's 50+ degrees outside... 10W-40 oughta be flowing OK.

Ended up pouring the whole qt. Waited probably 10 min between each quarter bottle - Don't wanna overfill !! When done the level was right at the "top/full" line. Waited 10 min. more - all looks good.

I go for a 30 min. ride... back home, parked in the same level spot... up on the centerstand... And now, it looks WAY TOO FULL. Oil all the way up and covering the window.

How did I end up with TOO much oil in there when I was so careful?? I looked in the fill cap to see if I could soak some up out of there with paper towels or rags, but just see internal parts / no oil.

A) What happened?

B) Do you think I really have WAY too much in there... and if so, is there an easy way to get a little out?

C) I've been burning a bit of oil anyway... if it's not TOO much overfilled, I'm sure it'll be down a bit in a week of casual riding. Do you think that's OK? What's the downside here... having a bit too (but I don't know how much) much in there??

[chef1366]

I've done the same thing. It's bizarre. Besides fouling your plugs I've read on this site that overfilling can cause your oil to become frothy and the oil pump won't flow the oil properly. I just drain the excess(when cold);-)
I also had this problem when I had a leaky petcock and gas was getting into my crankcase.

[RobGS850L]

I'm thinking you'll probably be fine. But, I remember back when I was drag racing we tried to keep the oil as far away from the crankshaft as possible. Reason being is that the crank weights and rod ends can "scoop" up little bits of oil out of the pan which robs horsepower and along with that the crank also creates a bit of wind which turns into a tornado (read windage) and we know what tornadoes do. They suck stuff up. So when all the oil ends up around the crank your pump can't suck any up and then no oil in the spots where it's needed. Well the performance folks out there came up with windage trays which were bolted in between the crank and oil sump in order to protect against the windage problem and also add a few ponies too. We also used deeper sump pans to help remedy this problem. Anyway it's always better to have a little less than too much. So if you want to sleep a bit better I'd drain a bit out.

[t3rmin]

A) What happened?

Check your shoe. You might have put the funnel in your shoe by accident. Happens all the time...

:-D

(Hello to fellow Washingtonian, by the way!)

[GregM.]

Yes "t3rmin" ... You must be from down around Vancouver - I'm in Renton. Anyway, yeah, my shoe is all sloppy... that explains it I sure do appreciate the humor around here beside all the great help.

And thanks you've been tossing in some helpful advice to me lately, but this time the Cali. guys have a bit more substance

I can't believe this is such a mystery... one of you experts can enlighten me can't you? I'm new to this bike and all the various maintenance issues. Obviously I don't have much experience at this. But I DO WANT to learn. It's just gonna be baby-steps for me.

And I don't want to do this over-fill thing again. So, come-on... three easy questions uh??

[t3rmin]

Centralia actually. ;-)

Ya know I was thinking and I think I recall this happening to me on a smaller scale the other day. Looked low, I added some slowly but it turned out to be too much after running it. Have you let the bike cool down and checked then? Could the oil volume expand a bit when hot?

[GregM.]

Good theory CentraliaMan... I looked again as it's now stone cold... But no luck, the oil level is still above the window.

No other suggestions yet - so now being paranoid about it I went and drained a bit out. Probably about 1 1/2 cups (it's hard to tell when it spreads out all over the driveway - GREAT). Anyway now I'm right at mid-window.

Last question - in addition to my other ones - Is it true, like Rob850L said, that it's better to have a bit too little than a bit too much... Even if you're not drag racing??

I was NOT trying to over-fill it - obviously by how careful I was being - but I was trying to get near the top line. Thinking that would be better for everything... and since I seem to be burning up a little, it would be longer before I had to add more.

Anyway please let me know if it's better to be mid-window than at the top fill line. - Thanks a lot

[marvinsc]

Good theory CentraliaMan... I looked again as it's now stone cold... But no luck, the oil level is still above the window.

No other suggestions yet - so now being paranoid about it I went and drained a bit out. Probably about 1 1/2 cups (it's hard to tell when it spreads out all over the driveway - GREAT). Anyway now I'm right at mid-window.

Last question - in addition to my other ones - Is it true, like Rob850L said, that it's better to have a bit too little than a bit too much... Even if you're not drag racing??

I was NOT trying to over-fill it - obviously by how careful I was being - but I was trying to get near the top line. Thinking that would be better for everything... and since I seem to be burning up a little, it would be longer before I had to add more.

Anyway please let me know if it's better to be mid-window than at the top fill line. - Thanks a lot

I Own the Same Bike and Have Decided that there is an Oil Gremlin Hiding in the Crankcase Somewhere. The Reason I say that is that on My One Long Ride this Year to the JoJo Rally in Missouri I changed the Oil before I Left and the Bike didn't use a Drop on the Way up, 425 Miles. I Rode with ptrdave the next day and that Evening I had to add about 2/3 of a Quart.Rode again Friday 100 miles or so and Rode Home Saturday and it didn't use any. One Day recently it wasn't showing on the Glass and I changed the oil and It hasn't used a drop since. I think the Gremlin takes away or adds that 2/3 of a quart at Will just for fun! My advice is keep it bwtween 1/2 and 2/3 on the sight glass and Ride!:-D

[renobruce]

Maybe a clogged or dirty oil strainer? You might want to take the oil pan off and have a looksy

[KEITH KRAUSE]

I'm not sure what happened as you poured the oil in. I've never seen oil take that long to come up the window. Maybe a few seconds "delay"?
I don't know if this is a part of your problem but when adding oil I learned a long time ago to only check the oil after...1: the oil is hot, 2: the bike is still running and on the centerstand or level, 3: then the bike is turned off, 4: wait a good 10 minutes, though this may be overkill when the oil is truly hot. I wait 10 minutes anyway. Same with my cars.
Turning the bike off while on the side stand, moving it around and then placing on the centerstand to view will give a false higher level read. I believe that Suzuki designed the sightglass and its accuracy by factoring in just how much oil is "caught" in the valve area when the bike is turned off after being leveled/on the centerstand. There SHOULD be a certain amount caught. If the bike is moved around before reading, this compromises their design. The result will be too little oil poured in.
Viewing the level with the oil at anything less than hot will also give false reads.
For anyone interested, I have a routine when I change oil. It may have a step that you don't agree with or bother with.
Knowing the oil will be changed, even if the whole job won't be done 'til later, I turn off the hot bike and lean it sideways a bit to help the oil drain better and I also pump the forks a few times. Happy that I have the oil drained into the pan the best I can, I place the bike on the centerstand.
I remove the oil cap. Place newspapers and the oil bowl under the plug. Take my ratchet/socket and make sure the thing is set to loosen...not tighten as many have done. I start to remove the hot drain bolt with the socket a few turns. I then usually slip on a couple of free plastic grocery bags over my hand. I finish removing the bolt with the socket and try to hold on to the bolt, which I usually do. If it drops into the hot oil, I'll get it out easy enough in awhile. Make sure the bolt washer came off too. If getting old/leaking, replace the washer. I remove the bags by turning them inside out and things stay pretty clean. Wait 'til the old oil is just a drip.
I then clean off and re-install the bolt/washer and torque to 9 ft/lb.
Then I move the catch bowl under the oil filter area. Loosen the cover bolts evenly/gradually and remove. Clean up the area. Change the filter and o-ring (if o-ring change is needed.) I apply a thin coat of grease to help seat the o-ring in its groove. Install filter/spring and push in as I finger snug the bolts down. Tighten a bit first, then torque to 4-5 ft/lb. Now the oil.
I fill until the oil hits the top of the sightglass and replace the cap.
I then start it up and look for any leaks. After a couple minutes, I go riding until I KNOW the oil's hot, whatever that takes.
I then place it on the centerstand and then turn it off without disturbing anything. Wait a good 10 minutes. The level you see will always be low from my experience. Just add slowly until the level is where your manual says it should be. The level should now be correct. Works for me.

[marvinsc]

I'm not sure what happened as you poured the oil in. I've never seen oil take that long to come up the window. Maybe a few seconds "delay"?
I don't know if this is a part of your problem but when adding oil I learned a long time ago to only check the oil after...1: the oil is hot, 2: the bike is still running and on the centerstand or level, 3: then the bike is turned off, 4: wait a good 10 minutes, though this may be overkill when the oil is truly hot. I wait 10 minutes anyway. Same with my cars.
Turning the bike off while on the side stand, moving it around and then placing on the centerstand to view will give a false higher level read. I believe that Suzuki designed the sightglass and its accuracy by factoring in just how much oil is "caught" in the valve area when the bike is turned off after being leveled/on the centerstand. There SHOULD be a certain amount caught. If the bike is moved around before reading, this compromises their design. The result will be too little oil poured in.
Viewing the level with the oil at anything less than hot will also give false reads.
For anyone interested, I have a routine when I change oil. It may have a step that you don't agree with or bother with.
Knowing the oil will be changed, even if the whole job won't be done 'til later, I turn off the hot bike and lean it sideways a bit to help the oil drain better and I also pump the forks a few times. Happy that I have the oil drained into the pan the best I can, I place the bike on the centerstand.
I remove the oil cap. Place newspapers and the oil bowl under the plug. Take my ratchet/socket and make sure the thing is set to loosen...not tighten as many have done. I start to remove the hot drain bolt with the socket a few turns. I then usually slip on a couple of free plastic grocery bags over my hand. I finish removing the bolt with the socket and try to hold on to the bolt, which I usually do. If it drops into the hot oil, I'll get it out easy enough in awhile. Make sure the bolt washer came off too. If getting old/leaking, replace the washer. I remove the bags by turning them inside out and things stay pretty clean. Wait 'til the old oil is just a drip.
I then clean off and re-install the bolt/washer and torque to 9 ft/lb.
Then I move the catch bowl under the oil filter area. Loosen the cover bolts evenly/gradually and remove. Clean up the area. Change the filter and o-ring (if o-ring change is needed.) I apply a thin coat of grease to help seat the o-ring in its groove. Install filter/spring and push in as I finger snug the bolts down. Tighten a bit first, then torque to 4-5 ft/lb. Now the oil.
I fill until the oil hits the top of the sightglass and replace the cap.
I then start it up and look for any leaks. After a couple minutes, I go riding until I KNOW the oil's hot, whatever that takes.
I then place it on the centerstand and then turn it off without disturbing anything. Wait a good 10 minutes. The level you see will always be low from my experience. Just add slowly until the level is where your manual says it should be. The level should now be correct. Works for me.

Whada Ya Mean IF. I thought that Dropping the Hot Drain Bolt into the Hotter Oil Was Standard Procedure!

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Whada Ya Mean IF. I thought that Dropping the Hot Drain Bolt into the Hotter Oil Was Standard Procedure!

Ha! And I couldn't possibly tell you what happens if you do reach in for it.

[chef1366]

Ha! And I couldn't possibly tell you what happens if you do reach in for it.

Stick your hand in a fryer. Hate to say that I have.:shock:

[GregM.]

GGEEEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZZ !!!!!!! Wow, Kieth... and I thought I was being careful !

That's awesome... I love it... Well I guess that might totally explain why oil levels seem to move a bit illogical sometimes.

Thanks, I guess I have an even more precise way to go about this now. I wish I didn't feel like I have to be so picky about this - geezz. It's just that there's only about 3/4 qt. between top and bottom of window, and I think I may be burning too much (more on that later), and you don't want too much or too little in there... so I guess it's kinda critical.

And the clogged oil strainer thought is another new one for me to. Anything's possible I guess, Thanks all !!

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Also to add, when changing oil, I've found you can trust the factory manual about quantities. You can't always trust the Clymers, Haynes, etc.
If the factory manual says to add 3.8 quarts when changing oil and oil filter, then you know it's very close, provided you drained the oil when hot and level. If still skeptical and 3.8 is called for, pour in 3.6 and go get it hot and park it level and check after 10 minutes. Almost certainly, the level will read a tad low and that added .2 will get you right in the range.