13.5 Volts across battery..with bike OFF!!

[Big6ft6]

Whats going on?? this is a continuation of my earlier thread. I replaced a working reg/rec with an electrex, just to "prevent" a future problem. Before replacing I had 12.6 V across battery with bike off and 13.5V running at drive rpm.

With electrex ran for a few minutes with readings like old reg/rec, then "click" I suddenly got 14 volts across at idle and 17V at drive speed!! I thought it was the new reg/rec so I put the old one back on...same readings!! What happened??

I disconnected the battery took it out of the bike and took a reading...13.6V:shock: Tested my car battery 12.5V so it isn't my voltmeter.

What could make a battery hold 13.5 Volts???? Could a over-charged battery be messing with my reg/rec?? Drivin' me nuts!!

[denydog]

When a 12 volt battery has been charging at greater than 13 volts or more, it takes a while for the voltage to come back down when you remove the charging voltage. If you let it rest for a few hours, I bet it will read around 12.5 volts.

I'm not sure why your regulator(s) is putting out so much, but I don't think it's because of the battery.

[Redman]

Yep, Like DennyDog said, a short time after being charged at charging voltage, the battery volts will stay higher for a while, even after charging system turned off. Wait hour or two or turn on headlight for a few seconds.

You said original R/R was charging battery at 13.5 volts. Closer to 14 or just over 14 would be better, but 13.5 will perrty much work.

Now: About going up to 17 volts. YIKES, not good.
Regulator not regulating. Possibly because R/R not grounded. THe blk/wht wire from R/R is typically "grounded" to a screw on the battery box, and the R/R itself is typically bolted to the battery box. But, but, how well grounded is the battery box is another thing to look into. IS typically a blk/wht wire connected to battery box that goes into the wiring harness and to a ground bolt on the frame somewhere (under seat possibley), sometimes that wire gets damaged or bad connection and then melts off (happend on my GK). All this is why you may hear recomandations to add additional ground wires from R/R-battery-box-screw to battery negitive and to the frame.

I dont know how similar the Tempter is to the GS850 & GS1100 that I have worked on.

You say "click", like you actaully heard an audiable click sound?

[Big6ft6]

Good to know about the battery, I was hoping I had some "super charing" battery and that was causing my charging system problems, but sounds like that isn't the case.

Audible click? I want to say yes. But it could have just been my mind becuase of how suddenly brightness of headlight and gauges increased when the voltage kicked up to high volts.

The obvious answer seemed to be that the new r/r was just crap. So last night I put the original r/r back in, never even considering that wouldn't solve the problem. You can imagine my surprise when the old r/r that used to work, now gives me the same problem. voltage climbs with rpms right up to 17V .

What could possibly be causing this if it isn't the r/r I have a ground wire going from battery to r/r attachment bolts. If something was wrong with my stator I would be getting less than 13V, not more, right?

I can't believe I've created this mess with a bike that didn't have any problems to begin with:? .

[Big6ft6]

Where does the electrex r/r sense voltage? Maybe my r/r is sensing low voltage and putting out 17volts at the battery to try and fix it? Does the electrex sense voltage somewhere where I can test to see if there is low voltage at that point?

Is it in the red wire?

[UncleMike]

I can't believe I've created this mess with a bike that didn't have any problems to begin with:? .

If it ain't broke,...

Have you gone through the Stator Papers? They're awful handy at isolating problems.

[argonsagas]

The "click" may be a signal to look for something other than your main charging system.

You will need to disconnect the large diameter/heavy gauge wire that runs between the solenoid and starter.

Start the bike, check the voltage going to the battery. Disconnect the starter cable at the solenoid, then check the voltage again.

If the voltage drops you know you have a problem with the starter and you will have to replace the brushes in it. Almost certainly this is caused by a faulty starter clutch, so that has to be repaired as well.

[Big6ft6]

argonsagas

thanks for this new idea. How would the starter be influencing the chargin voltage? If brushes are bad does this short circuit something and cause low voltage to be read by the r/r, so it tries to increase voltage to the battery? I'm not very experienced in this electrical stuff I'm glad I can tap into all of your educated/experienced minds!:-D

My bike has 8k original miles on it..how long does a starter usually last?

[argonsagas]

argonsagas

thanks for this new idea. How would the starter be influencing the chargin voltage? If brushes are bad does this short circuit something and cause low voltage to be read by the r/r, so it tries to increase voltage to the battery? I'm not very experienced in this electrical stuff I'm glad I can tap into all of your educated/experienced minds!:-D

My bike has 8k original miles on it..how long does a starter usually last?

Presuming this concern proves to be correct.....do the suggested electrical test first......then the problem is not with the starter, although it ends up there, but with the solenoid or the starter clutch, or both. If the solenoid sticks then the starter remains engaged, and the circuit remains available for current flow in either direction.

The starter clutch is a mechanical device located behind the flywheel in the engine (same location as the stator). This is a one-way clutch that engages when the starter turns the engine, and spins free once the engine starts. If it fails to release, whether because of mechanical failure or because the starter is trying to stay engaged due to solenoid failure, , the running engine will spin the starter many, many, times faster than it normally turns.


It is a pecularity with electrical motors: they normally use electrical power to run, but can produce power when overrun with no load.

If the starter clutch fails to disengage then the starter remains linked to the engine and will spin as long as the engine is running.

That will cause the starter motor to act like a generator, and it will produce power, but the power will not be regulated as the connection is direct to the battery.



When you pull the starter apart check the commutator as it will also experience rapid wear. It may still be OK, but need a clean-up.

If the bike has been taken anywhere while this condition exists then the brushes will definitely need replacement as the wear rate is vastly increased due to the gear ratios involved.


Having just gone through this, I learned that even if a starter has brand new brushes, as mine did, they will literally be worn down to dust in 4 to 5 hours of driving.

[Big6ft6]

Is the starter solenoid located next to the r/r, does it look like a mini starter solenoid in a car? With two heavy wires held down with copper nuts on studs under rubber boots?

[beby99]

Yep...that be it.

[Big6ft6]

Thanks Bret

What is your take on this starter possibiity? Have you heard of this ocurring in the Tempters? I makes sense that if the starter was stuck in the "engaged" position and was being driven by the motor that it would be creating voltage across the battery.

I did the tests using the stator papers yesterday and everything comes back "good" except I wasn't able to do the diode test with my multimeter.

[Big6ft6]

Well, I did the starter check, I took off the main lead at the relay while bike was running and it didn't effect the voltage across the battery. Still gets up to 16-17volts at 5000 rpm.

ground readings are all good, voltage and resistance is good across all three stator wires, no voltage drop between reg/rec and battery on red battery lead.

Seems the only thing left is reg/rec itself? ](*,) But remember my oem r/r worked fine, just was trying to make electrex upgrade. These problems started after I installed the electrex. Now I have same problem with both??

doesn't it seem unusual going between two different r/r that the voltage readings across battery at different rpms are identical? Wouldn't you think one would be worse than the other? This seems to make me think it is something else going on....

[beby99]

Nate...don't ya just love this stuff.:-D What model bike you got?? D or X
Not sure whats going on at this point...more questions than answers.
Do you have your high beam on during these tests?
Are you sure your connections are solid?
I have a on-board voltmeter to monitor my charging while riding...sometimes at lower speeds my bike may spike to 16v and set off the alarm (on the voltmeter). I turn on high beam until volts drop and than she's fine. How long are you testing for...may just be a spike and will lower while riding??

[tfb]

Big6ft6,

Looking at your last entry alone (and relax, I have been reading the whole thread!), you would have to say that the reg/rect. isn't regulating the voltage output from the alternator.

Buuuut... are you *sure* the connections from the +ive and -ive leads (ie. red and black respectively) are good? I just ask this because in 'The Stator Papers' fault-finding chart here it talks about how one cause of high voltage is poor connections on these leads.

A related possibility may be that the earth from your battery to the frame via that chunky black lead isn't a good earth. In fact, this alone is the simple cause of many an electrical headache! Going back to these basics may well yield the joy you seek.

So I've got to ask with beby99,

Are you sure your connections are solid?

All the best,
Mike.