Newbie: GS850, What do I need to ask the seller?

[aedi006]

I just won a '82 GS850GL on ebay. Go ahead and check is out, search for item #120092067198 on ebay motors. I will be hauling back home from Pa to Michigan in the back of my ranger. I have a good system for getting it in the bed, a ramp made of 4x4s bolted to my tailgate and a come-along winch to pull the bike up the ramp. My question to the forum is fairly general... what information should I collect from the current owner before I go? On the phone the guy seemed top notch, but I want to make sure that I come prepared if I can't call and ask later. Also, I tried searching for a thread on title transfer, but couldn't find a good one, any hints? The owner has a clean Pa title and I will title it back in Michigan, the current owner mentioned something about needing a notary, but I had never heard of that before. Final question... I am searching for a service manual and someone recommend the Suzuki shop manual over a Clymer? Is the suzuki manual that much better? Besides ebay does anyone know where I can find the Suzuki manual? This is just my first series of many questions, but I hope I can help someone else out eventually. Ohhh one last question, how is the "L" series any different than a standard GS850?

Brian

[bwringer]

Lots of questions...

Make sure you get any and all manuals, spare parts, old parts, documentation, etc. the old owner may have squirreled away. In particular, if a carb rebuild was done recently, see if you can get the old parts -- many rebuild kits are junk, and lots of us have learned the hard way that cleaning and reinstalling the old jets is the way to go.

As far as manuals, there are Clymers, Haynes, and, the rarest bird of all, the original GS850 Suzuki shop manual (I've heard they exist, but I've never actually seen one in 10 years of GS850 ownership). Buy all the above if you can, and always read them with a skeptical eye. Don't trust them one bit. All three are incredibly obfuscatory, incorrect, and outdated at times. By reading different perspectives, you can sometimes get a better idea of what's happening. Get the Haynes and Clymer manuals and a microfiche here:

http://repairmanuals.com

Ask about the age of all the standard stuff you have to replace every 20 years or so, including intake boots, intake boot o-rings, the petcock, etc. Ask about any upgrades to the suspension -- modern fork springs and shocks are mandatory safety upgrades, and if you're lucky, they will already be in place.

Ask about any luggage and/or fairing pieces that may go with the bike. Even if you prefer to ride a naked bike, vintage luggage and fairings are quite valuable.

Inquire as to the general health of the electrical system, any upgrades, etc. Check the stator connectors -- ideally, they've been removed and soldered to the wiring harness. More commonly, they are blackened from the heat generated from a poor connection and must be soldered ASAP.

If the seat is haggard, you can revive it with a new seat cover:

http://motorcycleseatcovers.com

Ask when the last valve check and oil change was done. See if you can verify this. Valve checks are required every 4,000 miles, and they are NOT optional. Many people have a magical belief that they can defer valve checks indefinitely. GS valve clearances tend to decrease, so you can't wait until something starts clattering before checking. Oil changes are called for every 2,000 miles, but many here are comfortable going to 3,000 or so with higher quality modern oils.

See if the airbox covers have been sealed with foam weatherstripping -- this is something every GS850 needs at some point, and if the PO already took care of it, great.

Some states require notaries to preside over title transfers, so be sure to find out and follow PA law. The title should have instructions on it as to whether a notary is needed -- no big deal, just head to a bank or credit union branch or maybe a library and pay the nice lady a couple of bucks. Do NOT leave without a properly signed and notarized title.

Do NOT allow any shortcuts here -- if your home state DMV finds the SLIGHTEST irregularity or, God forbid, an attempted correction, they will refuse to process the title. Then you will have to somehow convince the PO (who already has your money, and is thus entirely unmotivated) to go wait in line to apply for a duplicate title and start all over. This costs money and can take weeks. If the title is damaged or incorrect in any way, keep your money and go back home until the PO takes care of the problem. You do not need a title transfer service.

Lastly, get a bill of sale. Google around, and you can find bill of sale forms you can print off. Bring several copies with you in case one of you makes a mistake, and fill out and sign two copies while you're there. If you make a mistake on one, start over -- don't alter the bill of sale. Sometimes my DMV wants to see a bill of sale, and sometimes they don't. Best to have it ready.

[bwringer]

Here's my GS850G. Never mind the goofy seat pad thingy and the floppy bag on the rack:


Differences between the G and GL include the leading axle forks on the GL, the seats, the smaller, rounder tank on the GL, the chrome rear fender on the GL, the GL's smaller chrome headlight, and the 16" rear wheel (the G model has a 17" rear wheel.)

The GL also has a slightly different frame, airbox, and exhaust.

The electrics, engines and drivetrains are identical. The braking systems are identical apart from some different hose lengths and some minor differences in the routing of the rear brake hose.

There are also some differences between the three GS850 series, 1979, 1980-81, and 1982-83, but we'll leave those aside for now.

Here's an '82 GL from the gallery:

[ptm]

Here's a lead for a factory shop manual. Make sure it covers the L model.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=011&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=320088832493&rd=1,1

[bwringer]

Here's a lead for a factory shop manual. Make sure it covers the L model.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...8832493&rd=1,1

Wow, a manual all the way from jolly olde England!

The "Z" supplement means it covers the '82 models -- there are some minor differences between the earlier models and the '82-'83 models.

Other than the forks, there are no real mechanical differences between the "G" and "GL" models, just 99% cosmetic differences. These manuals would still be quite useful. However, I don't know if these manuals specifically cover the GL models. Were the GL models sold in Europe/England?

[ptm]

The manual I have is loose leaf and has the full manual for the N(79) and the supplements for the T(80), X(81), Z(82), and D(83). Starting with the supplement for the T(80), all have a section for the L model.

I also looked in the My Suzuki Pages since it has a European slant, and it lists some of the L models in the main section but not all of them. In the GS850-specific section he mentions the L models for all the years they were available in the US.

Regardless, it would be a good idea to ask the seller if that supplement covers the L.

On your other questions, I'd take a look at the MI DMV site. It should tell you what you need to title an out of state vehicle. Here in Oregon, you just need a copy of the title signed by the seller, and have the VIN on the bike checked against it. Pretty easy process.

I also agree with Brian - get as many of the manuals as you can. If you can find an older Clymer in good condition, they have the electrical schematics in color, which are easier to read.

[aedi006]

More questions (of course)

bwringer... what a great post. Thanks. You obviously have thought about/done this a few time before. I am looking into the title stuff and sent an email to the seller with your suggested required info. How does this look for a manual:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item=230100409975&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:US:11

More questions:

How can I as a newbie make contributions to the forum?

Here is the seller's description of the bike and a picture. What do you all recommend me to start with (its still 20 F here in michigan and I should have to dire need to drive it around for a while)? I also have access to a decent machine shop (bridgeport mill, lathe, some nice cnc mills, sandblaster, +other misc, experiance with mastercam / solidworks) and I love to machine. I was thinking carb re-build following the instructions I've seen on gsresources. I did search for a "what do I start with" thread, but did not find one to my liking.

SELLER DESCRIPTION

1982 Suzuki GS 850 L. Runs, but needs TLC. This one has been sitiing since 2004. I drained the tank and the bowls and charged the battery. It needs a shot of starting fluid to get it to run. Sometimes it will then run on its own and sometimes you have to feather the throttle the whole time. It has some bog to it when you give it gas. Carbs will probably need to be gone over. All the lights, horn, gauges work. Front tire is very good, rear tire is fair. Shaft drive. Bike does have some surface rust from sitting. I have a clean PA title. If you have zero feedback, please contact me prior to bidding.
I prefer bidders come look at the bike and make their own assessment.
I reserve the right to end auction early for local sale. No personal checks accepted. Thank You.

[ptm]

Flush the brake fluid - if it's anything except a nice, clear, light amber, then the master cylinders and calipers will need to be rebuilt. You can get kits with the rubber parts you need. Hopefully the pistons and bores are in good shape.

Rebuild the carbs - get a set of o-rings from http://www.cycleorings.com/. Other than gaskets, reuse as many of the jets and other brass parts as possible. There's a good card rebuild guide here http://www.thegsresources.com/gs_carbrebuild.htm.

Replace the oil and filter.
Replace the front and rear shaft gear oil.
Check the electrical system using The Stator Papers here http://www.thegsresources.com/gs_garage.htm

Check the gas tank - if there is light surface rust inside you can clean it with phosphoric acid or use electrolysis - do a search for details. If it's got a lot of rust then more drastic measures are required up to and including using a kit to clean, etch and apply a lining in the tank.
Test the operation of the petcock to make sure it's flowing fuel in the PRIme position and (when there's vacuum) in the ON and REServoir settings.

Change spark plugs.
Check valve clearance (get a gasket from http://www.realgaskets.com/. It's the same cost as the paper one and it lasts forever)
Clean and oil air filter
Replace tires

Lube the cables - clutch, throttle, speedo, tach
Adjust clutch free play.

Replace the Phillips head case bolts with stainless steel allen cap screws.
Lube everything that moves

Clean, clean, clean, then wax.

I'm sure I've missed a few things, but others will fill in more blanks...

[SqDancerLynn1]

Do Not Hand Over Any Money Without Getting Pink Slip/ Cert Of Title
Bill of sale doesn't cut it

[khardrunner14]

In PA you usually cannot use a bank notary. You need to go to a tag and title place or a notary public that is certified for cars and bikes. The easiest is a tag and title place. Look one up at www.yellowbook.com in the area where you are picking up the bike or ask the PO to find one he is familiar with.

Expect to pay 6% sales tax plus at least a $20 notary fee. You don't have to register it in PA (more $$) and you don't have to buy a plate (even more $$).

[Redman]

AEDI,

Welcome to GSR.

Looks like several have answered your questions.
Yes, BrianW is great. You can study his responces.

Your L looks pretty stock except the exhaust (but I really dont know Ls). You asked about difference between L and G. My web page has pics of the 80 GS850G that I had that is all stock. Most difference between L and G is the styling/type of seat and handle bars which effects the entire riding style. And other mostly cosmetic differences such as the fenders and tail light and instruments. But both same engine and both shaft drive (In 850G and 850GL anyway). .... ah, ,,,er,,,, um,,, Any statement beyound that would be my opinion and possibley start an argument.

Oh, one other thing: the 850L is actaully an 850GL, we call it an L and it has 850L on the side panel, buit the model number is actaull 850GL. G meaning shaft, L meaning the cruiser style. Reason I point this out is that there are other models that actaully are just L, meaning chain drive cruiser style.

(click on circle after my user name to go to my webpage)

Or you can go back to GSR homepage and look in Gallery for lots of bike pics.
Here is link to picks of the 850G I had

http://www.thegsresources.com/_scripts/gallerydispwnd.php?RegID=515

I bought a bike from Ohio (non GS), dint have any problem. But I made sure ther was no lean holder listed, and that title matched bikes VIN, and it was signed in the right place ectera. Just took it to sec of state office and things seem to proceed with no complication from it being out of state. I made a copy of title first just to keep.

So, where in Michigan are you.
Is going to south central Indiania close enough for you? Look at Brown county ride in the meeting place section.

.
Later edit: Oh, now I see that Brian did give an expalation of difference between G and L. I guess I got so gelous looking at the pick of his blue 850G that I quickley went on to the next posting.