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continuing ignition saga

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anonymous
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Anonymous

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:cry: Well, still can't get Suzi going. I finally got my multimeter back from a friend and checked my ignition coils. Scenario: '82 GS1100GK w/ 8200 miles. Bought new battery, coils show 3.7 and 3.6 ohms. 2/3 coil fires fine. No joy from 1/4 coil. New spark plug boots. Think I have taken all the connections off and sprayed contact cleaner on all. Added another ground from other side of the engine to the battery. Clymers sez to remove the pickup leads to check for a good cdi box, but I'm not sure if I'm to remove the signal generator (is that the large metal plate with the two lobes?), but can't get the leads off without it. Does that require a tool to remove? Am I going about this all wrong? The local shop will look at it for $60, but several sources tell me that the ignitor should be fine. Absolutely stumped!! You folks are the brain trust, speak to me....
 
Before you go into "panic" mode, let's check one other thing ... As long as you have the ignition cover off of the motor - trace the wire from the ignition to the cdi box - make sure there are no breaks or cuts through the harness. I had one that had shorted to the engine (the little insulated loops that hold the harness against the block had worn through the harness). There is obviously something wrong with the signal to the coils from the ignition - recheck all of the wiring and the connections! 8)
 
OK, next phase. I've cleaned every connection and added a ground. The bike turns over, gets fire to all cylinders, but won't start. Unless something comes out of the woodwork, I'll have to have the bike shop come get her. I can't believe that I'm gonna get beat on this one...
 
OK, next phase. I've cleaned every connection and added a ground. The bike turns over, gets fire to all cylinders, but won't start. Unless something comes out of the woodwork, I'll have to have the bike shop come get her. I can't believe that I'm gonna get beat on this one...
 
Hmmm, since all four plugs are firing, we can assume the ignition module is working. :-) However, though it is providing a spark, it may not be providing it at the correct time. Is your timing adjustable? Have you checked/verified your timing? Are your plugs wet after cranking or are they still dry?

Earl



yashana5783 said:
OK, next phase. I've cleaned every connection and added a ground. The bike turns over, gets fire to all cylinders, but won't start. Unless something comes out of the woodwork, I'll have to have the bike shop come get her. I can't believe that I'm gonna get beat on this one...
Click to expand...
 
When I checked #1 earlier, it was wet, so I shot it with contact cleaner to dry it off and put it back in. I've got to shut down for the night, but here's the rub. . . Until the initial episode of the 1/4 coil not firing, she was purring like a kitten. So theoretically, she should have fired right up. I'm gonna plug away at it tomorrow. Gotta beat the shop....
 
What did you do to get 1/4 plugs to fire? How old is the gas? Are all four plugs wet, or just number 1? When you crank it and it doesnt start, have you loosened the drain plugs on each carb to be sure there actually is gas in them?

Earl


yashana5783 said:
When I checked #1 earlier, it was wet, so I shot it with contact cleaner to dry it off and put it back in. I've got to shut down for the night, but here's the rub. . . Until the initial episode of the 1/4 coil not firing, she was purring like a kitten. So theoretically, she should have fired right up. I'm gonna plug away at it tomorrow. Gotta beat the shop....
Click to expand...
 
I'll check that today when I get home. I just had the carbs rebuilt in Sept., the gas is from my last tank when she stopped running in mid-December. I'll pull all the plugs again...
 
:cry: OK, got home and turned the engine over for about 5 to eight seconds. Pulled the plugs, all four were wet. Cleaned, regapped and grounded them. All four had fire. Reinstalled them and tried again for 10-15 seconds each time about 30 seconds apart. No joy. Dead spankin' stumped....
 
If you've got spark, fuel and compression, then regardless of how far out your ignition timing is, it should run, or at least fire a few times. I'm gonna ask a dumb question, but have you got the correct plug lead connected to each plug? One coil should be feeding #1 and 4, and the other #2 and 3. If that's all ok, how's the charge in your battery? It's a lot easier to spin the engine with the plugs out, but when they're back in it's a different matter. If the battery is a little tired,all the power from the battery is being drawn just to crank the engine, with nothing left to fire the plugs. This happens frequently with my GS1000S because I'm running hi-comp pistons and bigger cams, the battery, even fully charged has problems coping with the extra cranking pressure required. Check your plug leads, then charge the battery right up, and if it doesn't start now, burn it for the insurance, ha ha! :twisted:
 
I must disagree with you on this one. I've worked on quite a few bikes that have been "wrenched" on to the point that their timing was so far out they would not fire at all within a range that would produce any kind of combustion. Dead as in DED. :-) :-)

Earl


terry said:
If you've got spark, fuel and compression, then regardless of how far out your ignition timing is, it should run, or at least fire a few times.
Click to expand...
 
Not that this will help solve Yashana's problem all that much Earl, but my original point still stands. Your ignition timing can be out 180 degrees (i.e., piston at the bottom of the stroke when spark plug ignites) and as long as there is fuel/air mix present, it will fire. (probably back through your carbs) Over the 30-odd years that I've been tinkering with cars and bikes, I've seen this occur quite often when someone has put the plug wire for cylinder #1 on plug #2 etc, the piston has drawn a fresh charge of fuel/air mix into it's cylinder and reached the bottom of it's stroke, the inlet valve is still open, and bang! (well actually Whoomp!) Anyway, if the bike was running ok on 2 cylinders before he got the other coil working, and hasn't disturbed the ignition plate, then I doubt that the timing is too far out. My money's on the battery not being able to handle cranking the engine and providing enough spark all at once. Charge it up Yashana! :twisted:

earlfor said:
I must disagree with you on this one. I've worked on quite a few bikes that have been "wrenched" on to the point that their timing was so far out they would not fire at all within a range that would produce any kind of combustion. Dead as in DED. :-) :-)

Earl
Click to expand...
 
Yashana 5783. Piecing together your past posts,you had the carbs re-built in Sept.,the bike ran great until mid Dec., then it 'stopped'. Now 2 months later,while replacing the battery and checking the coils,you discover that coil to 1&4 not providing spark,which I assume is the reason it 'stopped'.
Then you say you re-cleaned all connections and added a ground. Now all 4 plugs have spark,so the first time you cleaned and checked connections you must have just left something loose. So you have spark and you have fuel on plugs. So the next 2 things I can think of is; is the spark a nice fat BLUE color? If you have a weak spark,it will not be able to ignite the mixture. If spark is good and we know you have fuel,then how about air?
Is it possible that the idle has been mistakingly adjusted so low that the carbs are starved for air? I'm only familiar with the round-slide type and I know that their idle screw knob can be turned back until it's not even touching and the bike will turn over but never start. Try increasing the idle adjustment. Hope this helps! KK.
 
For the late comers, the battery is new. Timing was dead on til the 1/4 coil stopped, which is what got this thread started. I haven't touched the carbs since this happened. Only cleaned all the connections and got the fire back in the 1/4 coil. The connections are on the right plugs and the fire is blue, though not like my old Chevy SuperSport.
 
Ok mate, the plugs are sparking a nice blue and you reckon your battery is ok. Just for fun, disconnect the plug leads from the spark plugs, but leave the spark plugs in the engine, and not loose. Find another spark plug that you know works, and connect it to any of the plug leads, earth the spark plug to the head, then crank away. If the spark is much weaker, either your battery is in need of charging (new, old, they still go flat when there's nothing going back into them) or your starter motor is cactus. If the spark is still good (not a weak yellow) it should run. :twisted:
 
Well it seems I found the problem. After talking to a mechanic I found thru a friend. Originally worked on Suzi's 25 years ago when there was a shop in town. After having me remove the airbox to check for another problem, I discovered that 1/3/4 carb boots were getting soaked in gas. Seems that the shop that the carb rebuild set the floats wrong. So, I'm gonna have him go through them to see what they actually did. While he's at it, I'll have him adjust the valves to insure no further problems. Thanks to all for the troubleshooting tips. You folks are the best!!
 
Have you tried swapping the ground wires between the ignition coils?

Gavin
 
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