Just a Click - Help!

[chef1366]

Did you try jumping the solenoid?

[chef1366]

Take a pair of jumper cables and with the ground clamp ground it to a good clean surface and the other end ground it to the starter body. Run the positive from the battery to the cable connection on the starter.

[Norseman]

Jumper Cables

Chef, am I understanding correctly in terms of jumper cables - regular car jumper cables? Got'em, just want to make sure. Please have patience with my ignorance until I learn this electrical stuff.

Norseman

[chef1366]

Regular old jumper cables.
Red=positive
Black=-negative
I would connect everything except the negative on the cables for the starter body. I would touch this at the bolts that hold down the starter.

[MidnightRider]

If the starter is shorted or close to it, the solonoid would get an extra large current load and is likely to burn up. It may not be defective, but if it is that would be the reason. It was probably already quite old. Kind of like turning 60 and you decide to start smoking or throw away your snow blower and shovel a 200 foot driveway, you might get away with it.

[Norseman]

Assumptions

Well, I jumped the starter motor - from battery positive to motor main lug and from battery negative to touching the starter motor housing near bolts. Nothing, no response. Tried two different good batteries, both fully charged.

So, my assumption is: 1) Starter motor shorted and fried, 2) Since no click can be detected from solenoid in regular connection, the bad starter fried the solenoid as well.

My question is: When I picked the bike up from PO, he stated that he thought the battery was on its last legs as it would not hold a charge more than a couple of days. Could it be that the starter was on its way out, and it was actually draining the battery. The reason I ask is I'm concerned over the infamous charging weakness (reg/rec and stator issues), and it may have been the starter and not necessarily the charging system? I intend to replace the reg/rec with the Electrex, but the starter/solenoid will eat that money up for now.

Norseman

[bonanzadave]

The old airplanes I work on have a problem with the start relay sticking. This causes a high current drain on the battery and a over taxing of the charging system. Some guys put a wire on the starter post and run it back to a instrument panel light just to make sure once started the relay releases (light goes out). Maybe your relay got stuck or your starter button is sticky.

[Norseman]

Think its passed on...

I can see that happening, and now you got me going on running that up to an indicator with a ground.

In this case, though, bypassing the solenoid didn't do a thing, I can't even get a spark from the starter motor connecting directly to battery...

Norseman

[Nicholaschase29]

Pull the starter out, if its easy (never tried). and put the positive on the positive lead and negitive on the negitive. If nothing try taking the starter apart (if you can on these old starters) and try cleaning up the armature and maybe replace the brushes. I think you should be able to do this, but have never took one of these apart.
Nick

[MidnightRider]

Yea! what he said. Still not sure you're getting a good, correct ground. Not sure if the starter has a ground wire coming out of it or not. Plus the positive cable could have gotten damaged somehow.

[jbs80106]

pull it and take it apart...

If you've directly applied voltage to the starter and it hasn't turned...before you go and buy a new/used one...take the old one out....

wasn't too bad on my bike, just had to move the carbs outta the way to get the starter motor cover off...starter then just slides out...

mine had 2 long bolts holding the end cap on...took them off, end cap comes off and the bits just slide out.

Seems to be a 'known'? problem that oil/grim can get inside the starter cover and then work its way inside the starter...

Clean off the copper spindle thingy (thats a technical term mind you!) and the brushes. When you put it back together, look to see if the brushes are making contact, if so, reassemble and apply power to see if it spins...if yes, put it back in the bike and try again....

if no, you may just need new brushes. There's not too much in there that can 'break' really...

but I'm no expert...it worked for me...bike starts like a champ now.

[Nicholaschase29]

Take it apart and check it out as stated above, then get back to us.

[Norseman]

Status

Well, here's where I'm at. Removed starter and dis-assembled. Very dirty and grimey inside. However, the problem was the positive brush, down to the wire and shot. No longer touching armature. Took the brush plate to an alternator/starter repair/rebuild shop, and the guy was knowledgeable and kind enough to adapt a brush he had, and even soldered it for me - $10. Stopped by Auto Zone and picked up the Wells F496 solenoid - $10.

Got home and cleaned up the starter body and armature. Took some emery cloth and spit-shined the armature. Put a little axle grease on armature axle end and housing bushings. Re-assembled starter motor and tested with battery direct - man, that starter came to life! Starter is good again. Back into the bike, on with the tensioner, carbs, and tank.

Fabbed a set-back mounting bracket (the F496 is deeper with bracket holes closer together), painted/baked new bracket and re-assembled and wired evrything up. Put battery in and tested - nothing, nada, not even a click from the brand new solenoid. Also have a connection issue - I get intermittant power to ignition/neutral lights in instrument cluster. Jostling wires gets the juice through, but still nothing.

Here's the only thing I can think of; the Suzuki solenoid has three connections, battery positve, starter cable, and the yellow wire for ignition/run/starter button. The F496 solenoid has four connections: two main posts for battery and starter, and two additional smaller connections on the side (Terminal "I" and Terminal "S"). The solenoid didn't come with any wiring instructions, but a little note in the box says "If original solenoid has three terminals, do not use the "I" terminal. In addition, the solenoid has the main posts on the top and bottom of the solenoid, with no indication which is positive and which one is for starter cable. So I connected the top post to battery and bottom post to starter cable. Then I removed the yellow/black wire from old solenoid, put a connector on and attached it to the "S" terminal.

I have tried to connect the small yellow/black wire to the other small connection "I", that didn't help. Then I put it back on the "S" terminal, but ran a ground wire from the "I" terminal, that didn't help.

So the only thing left that I can think of is to switch the main posts and try that. I thought it was logical that the battery positive would go to the top main post rather than the bottom, but who knows? It is a car solenoid. Anyway, I would have thought I would at least hear the click? So if anyone has used the Wells F496, how is it properly wired? If you read this, MidnightRider, how did you wire it up?

Any advice is greatly appreciated!!!

Norseman

[chef1366]

SO close but SO far.............................
I don't think it matters which way the cable goes on the solenoid.
Take off your right handle bar switches and clean the kill switch and the starter button.

[DanTheMan]

There's another solenoid that fits in the original spot better, and is wired the same, if you get one for a lawn tractor (MTD, Yard King, etc.), it'll work fine. BUT, I suspect you're experiencing the same problem I was when I replaced my regulator rectifier......Very poor grounds. Run a ground wire from the R/R to the - post on the battery, and do the same thing for the solenoid. You might even discover the suspect old bad solenoid is still good...:-D