Reluctant start - tired battery

[salty_monk]

It was a bit reluctant yesterday morning & a real slow turn over yesterday night....

Battery was new last year, electrolyte levels ok & it's not a cheap one (can't remember brand offhand) should be charged as I did around 80 miles (in two hits) the days before.

Will try again tonight (not riding today) to see if it's still reluctant & put the charger on if it is. What would affect the bikes charging circuit?? Is it liable to be a connector or?? I here lots about Stator's & RR's on here... is one of those on it's way out?

Charger I have is actually for a 12v 7.0ah sealed battery for an electric outboard motor. Before I connect it up anyone know a good reason why I shouldn't use it?? It's output is 12VDC 800mA.

Cheers,

Dan

[Steve]

You might get by with it, but definitely DON'T leave it on there unattended. :shock:

Assuming this might be just a "wall-wart" type of charger, it has virtually no regulation. It might be rated 12 volts @ 800 mA, but as the battery gets more and more charged, it is possible that this thing will actually put out over 16 volts. Check it with a meter with no load on it. You might be surprised how much it can put out.

When you have a charged battery in the bike, connect your voltmeter to the battery terminals. Note the voltage before you start the bike. Start it, note the voltage at idle. Watch the voltage as you slowly increase engine speed. Somewhere between 1500 and 2000 you should be getting over 13.6 volts, maybe as much as 14+. This may decrease a bit as you rev higher. This is normal, it takes more electricity to make the spark happen faster.

If you don't have over 13 volts at all times above idle, you need to find out why. Check the connections from the sator wires to the R/R, then from the R/R to the battery. Do not rely on grounding the R/R only through its mount. Run a dedicated wire to the battery. If this does not help, go through the procedures outlined in The Stator Papers.


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[chef1366]

Go to Harbor Freight and get a solar powered trickle charger and tap into that California sunshine. Put the quick connect on your battery and plug it in when your not riding.

[salty_monk]

Yep, it can put out 17 volts with no load.... I better get me a proper one! Got it on charge tonight though. Bike is always in the garage so solar would be no use.

Ok so I lied about the battery, the cell closest to the plus side was a little bit low, just below top of plates so I've topped it off & put it on charge. It's also not a named battery that I know of, something like speedstart A12 or something....

One thing that's always happened is that my lights get brighter when you rev it, I presume this is normal as the dyno is not spinning very fast (idle speed 900 - 1000 RPM on tacho).

Will go through the other tests you suggest tomorrow. There is no ground running back to the battery from the RR as far as I know, everything looks very standard. Guess I better go get some wire.....

Thanks for the link, I'll have a look at that, run the tests with the meter tomorrow & report back... I'm doing that same 40 mile plus 40 mile trip tomorrow again... lets see what happens.

Cheers,

Dan

[salty_monk]

Anyone tried this http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/taf...?ActionArg=add

$14.50 incl freight. I think the Battery tender Jr is probably better. $28 from Amazon incl. Comes with quick disconnect lead too I believe...

Dan

[salty_monk]

Well I tested a bit this morning after charging the battery last night.

Battery read about 12.3v off the bike.

Bike started right up as normal, no hesitation a strong turn over. I let it warm up a bit then put the meter on.
At 900 RPM I get about 12 or 12.2v, at 1500-2,000 I get about 12.7v & above this it starts to drop off again & at 4k - 5k it's back around the 12v mark.

I'll try to go through all the connections at the weekend. What gauge wire should I use to make up a "stand alone" ground lead for the RR to battery negative?

If hunting bad grounds doesn't work then I'll be following the "stator papers" fault finding chart & expecting a big bill for new stator/RR

[Steve]

If you look at your regulator, there probably is a black wire on it already. Chances are that it's connected to a regulator mounting bolt. That means that it is relying on the panel that the regulator is mounted on to be grounded to the chassis, which needs a good connection to the battery. You see why you want a direct line to the battery?

Size? Don't go smaller than the one that is already there. I am not sure if it is a 12- or 14-gauge, I put a 10-gauge wire in both of mine.

Your voltages are a bit low there, sounds like it might be as simple as dirty connections from the stator to the R/R. Just disconnect those three wires, run the engine to about 5000 rpm, check AC voltage at the wires coming from the stator. You need to make 3 readings here. Label the wires A, B, and C. Measure voltage from A to B, then B to C, then C to A. All readings should be 70-80 volts or so. If it's not, then check the resistance on the three pairs of wires to see if there are any opens or shorts. If voltage is OK, check for clean, tight connections to the R/R, connect your extra ground wire to the battery and check again. If you are lucky, it will be fine. If you're still lucky, but this time it's bad luck, you will need a new R/R.


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[salty_monk]

Thanks Steve. I decided to pick up a battery charger from Kragen as it's across the street. Save the wait.
I'll fit a wire from the RR to the battery direct (done stuff like that on old cars tons of times for grounding issues) using the biggest wire I can find but not going up to a 1/4" car size grounding cable. (they have 12 gauge there for sure).

It's a PITA, I wanted to be doing my fork seals & valve adjust not this.. oh well.

If I do need a new RR &/Stator is Electrex the one to go for still? Is it better to replace them in pairs or is one or the other ok??

Cheers,

Dan

[salty_monk]

Woohoo, cured it using your tips & the stator papers! Thanks. Just got to tidy it up now.

Was the earth to the RR in the end but I also cleaned up all the connectors & WD40'd them & replaced all the fuses etc.

Cheers for the help!

Dan

[Steve]

Thanks for the success report. It is always nice to hear what actually solved the problem. \\/


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[salty_monk]

I'd already cleaned up the fuse box, new fuses & a bunch of other connectors then put the meter on again.

As soon as I did the test from ground to the case of the RR it was obvious, it was reading 0.6 or 0.7 rather than less than 0.2.

It now reads 0.00

Cleaned up the main ground on the back of the engine & fitted a 10 gauge to the bolt on the battery box where the RR loop bolts (after cleaning it all up) & Bob's your uncle.

I may fit a couple of other additional grounds at some point, I didn't realise they all relied on that one hook-up to the back of the engine!

Once again thanks for the help.

CHeers,

Dan