Which antiseize?

[robertbarr]

There are only about 34,958 types of antiseize out there. I've read that those with graphite shouldn't be used with aluminum. That excludes a lot of what's available. What's left? Is it a major consideration?

I'll have to check & see what kind I've been using on spark plugs all these years; never had a problem, either on the bikes or the Volkswagens.

So the question is: which type of antiseize should be used on stainless steel into an aluminum cylinder head?

[chef1366]

Shoot! I just bought a tube of anti-seize from Auto Zone and did all the bolts on my cam caps plus the one I heli-coiled, valve cover bolts and the exhaust bolts. I have to look at the tube but was a little gritty which would make me believe it had graphite. Please tell me I didn't screw stuff up. Even though I doubt it.

[bwringer]

I've been using this huge bottle of Permatex silver anti seize stuff from Autozone for several years now with zero problems. They were out of the smaller containers at the time or something like that. Even in my fairly active garage, it's just now getting down to where I'm starting to have trouble reaching the goop with the brush.

I wonder why on earth graphite would be a problem? Is it in the silvery-gray stuff? I've heard the copper-based stuff is best on stainless/aluminum, but I haven't experienced or heard of any problems with the silvery stuff.

[Dave8338]

I use the same stuff as Brian, have for twenty years and have never had a problem, use it on everything but spark plugs...OH, not on head bolts! :shock:

[chef1366]

Yeah, that's the stuff I used. Whew! I almost got nervous there for a sec.
Why not on head bolts Dave? ;-)

[robertbarr]

First, yes, it's news to me that there are so many types of antiseize, with possible compatibility problems. I think it's possible that I've researched this a little too thoroughly.

For the graphite, I've found that Loctite's info PDF lists only graphite-free products as suitable for aluminum components. Also, I found this:

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1646542/Main/1470583

About 2/3 of the way down. Search on 'graphite' if you're interested. So I'm trying to contact that person about his source, but it's consistent with Loctite's sheet.

Next, one I didn't expect was copper. Check this out:

http://www.armitelabs.com/products_copper_based.php

(To cut to the chase, copper-based compounds can't be used with stainless.)

It seems that just about anything can be used on spark plug threads into aluminum. Not sure why it's an exception.

The trusty Permatex 133A is what I've used since the paleozoic era, with no problems, and it contains both graphite and copper. I've been searching for information that doesn't involve opinions -- not an easy search.

For a stainless bolt into an aluminum component, it looks more and more like a zinc-based compound. We will see.

[twistedwankel]

So the question is: which type of antiseize should be used on stainless steel into an aluminum cylinder head?

You probably don't need it when using stainless. Unless you are using a real torque wrench and want an accurate reading.

Type A (little tube) Permatex and Type K (big 8 oz bottle) pretty much paint a wide usage but with the "caution" remove all excess.

A light coating isn't going to do squat to your parts except allow you to get them out/off years from now under heat conditions up to 1600 degrees. Your O2 sensor has the "glop" on it from the factory.

The best use for the "stuff" is in torqued places like wheel lugs so there is no binding and you get "a real" torque reading. So who uses stainless head bolts???? Or studs for that matter???? They recommend chasing out the threads with a tap and then oiling the threads of the stud and only placing them finger tight. Then you torque the bjesus out of the nuts.

All my stainless bolts are for the ornamental pieces...they are beautiful and never rust. What else is stainless good for?? Sometimes I use a SS plain and lock washer if there is a chance of gouging the aluminum.

Everything in it's place. How many years would a glop of NeverSeize have to be on dissimilar metals before they would gall??

[dardoonk]

Copper is likely not going to cause us problems with stainless steel unless on the exhaust header.
Intercrystalline Corrosion- AKA: Weld Decay- This normally occurs at weld points & is due to chemical attack after heating within the range 500˚-800˚C
We've got other problems if our bike reaches 500 C - or 950 Fahrenheit

[DaveDanger]

A mention was made about graphite antiseize not being recommended on motorcycle engines... I do know that a lead pencil is never used on an aircraft aluminum sheet metal panel as it is guaranteed to cause corrosion directly on the pencil mark. I do NOT know if it is the graphite component or a carbon component, but it is there.

I use Copper based antiseize daily in aircraft and motorcycle maintenance. Loctite C5-A is what works. I use it on stainless (that's called out as permissable under Loctite's spec sheets) and everything else. If it asssembles with a threaded fastener, including spark plugs into aluminum heads (planes and bikes) I use my trusty copper antiseize.

To be understood, aircraft spark plugs are removed and reinstalled frequently... much more so than automotive and even bike plugs. Every 100 hours of operation, all the plugs (2 per cylinder) are removed, bead-blasted, regapped and reinstalled. That frequent removal rate is capable of wearing out the threads in the heads, and galling the threads as well. The threads can seize badly enough to pull out of the head disastrously (the threads are Helicoils, factory installed upon initial fabrication).
I especially use my copper antiseize on any and every exhaust component I reassemble. From studs to bolts, to slipfits, to clamps, to support hangars. Anything that gets heated in any fashion, antiseize can benefit by preventing heat galling/welding.
I buy mine in 1-pound cans, and keep one in each toolbox (3).

I cut and pasted the following directly from the Loctite technical datasheet:

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION

LOCTITE

® C5-A® Copper Based Anti-Seize provides the following product characteristics:

Technology

Anti-Seize

Appearance Smooth copper colored paste
Cure

Non-curing

Application

Lubrication

LOCTITE® C5-A® Copper Based Anti-Seize provides a shield against high temperature seizing and galling. All mated parts, studs, bolts, flanges and gaskets, remove more easily and in cleaner and better condition. This product can be used on copper, brass, cast iron, steel, all alloys including stainless steel, all plastics and all non-metallic gasketing materials. Typical applications include original equipment and maintenance, and equipment associated with petroleum chemicals, steel mills, power plants, marine and foundries. This product is typically used in applications with an operating range of -29 °C to +982 °C.
MIL-PRF-907
LOCTITE

® C5-A® Copper Based Anti-Seize is tested to the lot requirements of Military Specification MIL-PRF-907.

TYPICAL PROPERTIES
Specific Gravity@ 25 °C 1.2 to 1.4

LMS

Density @ 25 °C, g/cm³ 1.27
Flash Point - See MSDS
Solids/Non-Volatile Content, % 40
Penetration, ISO 2137, 1/10mm 320 to 380LMS
TYPICAL PERFORMANCE
An anti-seize lubricant used on a bolt helps to develop greater clamp load for the same torque compared to an unlubricated bolt. An additional benefit is greater uniformity in clamp load among a series of bolts. The relationship between torque and clamp load is expressed in the following equation:
T = K x F x D
T = Torque (N·m, lb.in, lb.ft)
K

= Torque coefficient or nut factor, determine experimentally

F

= Clamp load (N, lb.)

D

= Nominal diameter of bolt (mm, in.)

[tconroy]

I use the permatex stuff in the gray tube on everything and it has never gave me any problems.everthing always backs out just fine.

[nert]

been turning wrenches for 40 years. started using neversieze way back then. most people never heard of it. I used it due to the implications offered by its name. I use it on almost everything. simply put, it works, and has saved me HOURS of work, drill bits, taps, and trashed castings, and salty language.

I don't know if its true, and don't have the time to investigate, but the original explanation as offered to me, was the neversieze compound consisted of tiny glass spheres (obviously not affected by heat) take up the space between the fastener and the threads. No water, rust or "other" can form between. Tuning a stuck bolt causes the glass to crush offering clearance for the fastener to turn free.

I bought it. I love it. I use it. I preach it!

[catfishk]

same here; the expensive stuff in the grey bottles. i use it mostly on parts affected by heat or rust. it's one of those things i know by the container, but couldn't tell you who makes it, after 10 years of using it religiously

i wish Suzuki smeared a bit on the exhaust bolt threads of my GS so i wouldn't have broke 2 of them off!

[chef1366]

Hey Nert! Long time no hear. Thanks for the help with the head work. My bikes running like a raped ape.:-D