newbie questions non-running GS850 1980

[donberry]

got a deal ($150.00) on a non-running GS850. I would like to see if it runs before I do a whole lot of anything else on it. Starter switch is bad. I lubed the engine with WD40 and MMO, let it sit overnight then cranked it by hand. Changed the oil.
Hit the starter with a battery to crank her over and get the oil moved around.
Next, hooked it up to a battery and cranked her up.
Not really getting a good spark - it is intermittant.
Questions - I am new to this type of engine. I have "restored" a Honda GL1000 but it is a whole different animal.
Might be a bit before I get a manual (I am disabled vet on fixed income) but would like to try some things while I am waiting.
Questions -
carbs - what the heck keeps the carbs on the intake? I removed the airbox. Those intakes are as hard as rocks and need replaced. They had clamps on them. The carbs are just sitting on the intakes. Can't put clamps on them because there is a protusion (think it is a screw for air maybe ? ) on the intake which keeps a clamp from going around it.
Does just the force of the airbox keep it attached to the engine ?
The intake rubber is not bad, but sure does not seem air tight.

Spark - searching for some info, seems a CDI unit is a good place to start for intermittant spark. I do not have a wiring diagram yet, but any tips for checking that out?

Any tips and info is appreciated. I understand I need a manual and that is at the top of my list next month. Just hate waiting a month to play around with her.

Thanks (and I do ask alot of stupid questions - sorry)

[Suzuki mad]

Leave it alone for a month and then get a manual. It will save you a bucket load of cash in the long run than tinkering blind now.

OK, thats rude. There places you can download manuals online. It would be better to start there than play around.

The carb rubbers on the cylinder head and airbox hold the carbs in place and the clamps (jubilee clip things) do go round. Not sure why there's a scew in the way. After years these get old, hard and perish. If they don't seal it will give you fuel problems and a missfire.

CDI box on the offside behind the side panel or under the battery box (same place.)

Carbs will probably need a clean up of old emulsified petrol.

Suzuki mad.

[MissFabulous]

Welcome. Check out the carb rebuild series on the home page, and this page of links, particularly the stator papers. While you're waiting for a manual, you can check out exploded parts fiche at http://www.alpha-sports.com and www.bikebandit.com. Most people order from Bike Bandit, but Alpha Sports fiche are easier to read IMO. Ask all the questions you want - these guys around here are pretty patient :-D

[mark]

Its hard to know where to start. But first of all, your bike if its a stock GS 850 it won't run and maybe even won't start without the airbox on and properly sealed.

First order of business it would seem to me, would be a compression test. Even cold, if you throw a little oil in there, open the throttle and do your test you can at least determine if you have a base to start from.

[Nessism]

Due yourself a favor and remove the carbs and completely tear them down. The rubber o-rings get hard and the bike will not run properly unless the carbs are spotless and properly sealed - from the inside out.

Carb rubber boots connecting to the head are sure to leak - replace the large o-ring between the boots and the head. Replace the boots themselves if they are hard.

Regarding the spark, it's sometimes hard to see the spark so I wouldn't replace anything just yet except for the plugs. The spark plug caps should be inspected though to make sure there is good contact to the coil wire.

While the tank is off for the carb work make sure you check the valves. Many people neglect the valves on these GS engines since they require shims to adjust. Check them and get the clearances right so you know everything is okay in this respect.

Do some work up front and you will be way ahead of the game. Most people try to just do the bare minimum and wind up spinning in circles with a bike that doesn't run right. Do the maintaince work now and save yourself the frustration later. You've been warned.

[Steve]

Send me a PM or e-mail with your snail-mail address and I can send you a disk with an 850 manual on it.


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[justmount1]

how do you check the valves on my gs55oL 80

[Nessism]

how do you check the valves on my gs55oL 80

Valve adjustment on 8 valve engines is actually very easy.

1) Remove valve cover (after removing the tank) and it helps to pull the plugs.

2) If you have a kick starter there is no need but otherwise you want to pull the ignition pickup cover off the right side engine cover.

3) Rotate engine (using kick starter or a 19mm wrench on the end of crank from right side) until the exhaust cam lobe for the #1 cylinder (left most) it pointing forward and parallel to the cam cover surface.

4) Check the exhaust valves on #1 and 2

5) Rotate engine until #4 exhaust cam lobe is pointing forward (just like you just did with #1).

6) Check exhaust valves on #3 and 4

7) Rotate engine until #1 intake cam lobe is pointing up at 90 degrees to the cam cover surface.

8) Check intake valves on #1 and 2

9) Rotate engine until #4 intake cam lobe is pointing up at 90 degrees to the cam cover surface

10) Check intake valves on #3 and 4

Clearance is supposed to be 0.03 - 0.08 mm (0.001 - 0.003 in). You need to remove shims and change to the appropriate next size as necessary. A special tool is available for removing shims - about $20.

Most of the time the clearance will shrink and you will need a thinner shim than is already installed. Measure the clearance, remove the shim, and pick a thinner one (typically one or two sizes thinner than what is already installed).

Hope this helps.

[Steve]

how do you check the valves on my gs55oL 80

Do you realize that most of the people that look in this thread are looking here because they are interested in getting a non-running 850 going again? Asking questions about the valves on your 550 would be better and quicker answered if you started your own thread.

By the way, Nessism gave you a good procedure.


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[donberry]

manual

I understand that I need to get a manual before I dive into any deep repairs, BUT, with the internet, I believe (my opinion) that there are quite a few things that can be done while waiting. Tis why I love the internet, you can get information about most anything. I am not flying totally blind as I have restored a 77 GL1000, BUT the suzuki is a totally different animal. I have just found some wiring diagrams so I can be checking all that out while waiting also.
Compression check - checked out fine. I foegt off the top of my head what it was, but with the throttle cranked open and cranking it on the battery, it seemed fine (sorry but I forget the exact number)
As for the "screw" on the intakes, I will take a picture of one. Where the rubber goes onto the engine, even in the rubber there is a small cutout which allows the rubber boot to go around the "bolt, protrusion or whatever it is. The "cut out" is stock, I doubt someone cut this out themselves.
The rubber is round of course, and , let's say for the 3 and 4 carbs, the cutout is at about the 4 o'clock position. With that "protrusion", it seems like it would have to be a super skinny clamp unless the clamp actually had a cut out for the bolt. I tried one of the clamps from the airbox and it would not work as it hit that bolt.
Will try to get a picture of it shortly (wife was not too happy about me starting another bike as I spent A LOT of time in the garage doing the last one - worth every second I might add lol)

[Nessism]

The screw in the intake rubber runners is for a vacuum port fitting - for use when sync'ing the carbs.

The band clamp that goes around the rubber intake runners is quite narrow - about 7mm wide. You need the proper clamps or you till distort the crap out of the runners and cause them to leak.

Yes, garage time. Don't forget to pay attention to the wife though. You won't have any money left for bike parts if you wind up in divorce court. (don't ask me how I know)

[donberry]

nessisim

nessism - :-D


yea, I understand. On the GL1000, I had no other bike so felt I HAD to be out there every minute of the day. As I am "retired", I can not even count the hours I spent in the garage. My wife isn;t going to do that again. My thoughts on this one - as I have another ride, I can take my time with this and not be in a hurry. Looking through pictures of the bike, I believe I may try to restore her to pretty much original (looks wise anyway). I have my bike with all the trunks and luggage (I put the GL1100 bags and trunk on my naked GL1000) that I can use for overnighters and grocery shopping. I like the looks of the naked bikes better, so I am going to lose the luggage and fairing (which will pay for the initial cost of the bike also) and go naked.
Actually, whole reason I just came in from the garage now is to check out some pictures before I take off the luggage to make sure that is the way I want to go......
Best time is when school starts. Wife works at the high school so that is when I can spend ALL day in the garage and she never knows.

Clamps - wow, those are some pretty skinny clamps. I had read about them being narrow, but figured it used the same ones as the air box. Looks like a trip to the hardware store.

(will the bike start without the airbox ? I figure it would just be a little lean but would give me a good idea on what she needed before slapping the airbox back on. Guy could have lied, but he said he rebuilt the carbs. Figured I would get some spark and crank her up before I delved into that one. I know the carbs on the GL1000 were a pain because they were sooooooo finicky)

[bwringer]

No, the bike will most likely not start without the airbox, and it will not run.

You've checked compression, and hopefully you will check the valve clearances and change the oil. Once that's done, leave the engine alone until you get the intake and carb systems up to date and replace the petcock.

You're only going to put a lot of strain on the starter and you could even seriously damage the engine by trying to start and run it with leaky/dirty carbs, petcock, etc. There's no point at all to "hearing it run" -- you will not learn anything useful.

Here's my page on GS850 intake boots and o-rings that will at least give you an idea of what they should look like:

http://bwringer.com/gs/intakeorings.html