Exhaust bolt removal...Do they all break?

[jtolbert]

I eventually want to get a V&N 4:1 exhaust for my '83 GS1100GL. I've got a friend that's had several GSes and he says every time he's tried to take the pipes off of one he ends up breaking most of the exhaust bolts. Is this a common-place occurrence? Is there anything I can do to avoid it? I'm guessing hosing them down with Kroil and/or PB Blaster every night for weeks in advance isn't a bad place to start, but do you have any other recommendations? A friend suggests running the engine to get it hot, then putting something cold on the head of the bolt to shrink them a bit...Is this effective?

[Nessism]

A good soak with PB Blaster won't hurt but you need not be afraid. If the bolts don't loosen up the way you think they should, STOP and soak them some more. Don't just crank away on them until they snap off. Frankly, I'm not sure what plan B should be (heat, cold, whack with hammer, ?) but there is always a way.

BTW, I recently took off the exhaust on both my GS550's and didn't have any issues at all. Both were on there since the 70's so at least one person around here not had snapping bolt issues.

[duaneage]

I would try this on a hot engine, might help.

I use an impact screwdriver to remove them. The Impact Screw Driver (ISD) has a 1/2" socket drive on the end that I can fit a 12 mm socket on. I can then work the bolts off carefully and so far it has succeeded. I pulled the front forks on one bike to give more room to work the ISD in and swing the hammer.

The problem with sprays and oil is they run away from the threads, the bolts lean down. If you do break on off drill them out, don't waste time with an easy out. Then stud them so this doesn't happen again.

This is an area where Honda did it right and Suzuki wrong.

[jimcor]

Yes, start with spraying the bolt down with PB Blaster, Kroil, or Deep Creep. A week or two wouldn't hurt a bit. Even tho' the bolts point downward with PB and Deep Creep you will get capillary action up the threads. I've used PB, but not Deep Creep or Kroil, but reports for all 3 products are complimentary.

Also, it can't be stressed enough to use a drift and a hammer to smack the bolt head a good whack, often, as often as you spray the bolt threads This will help to physically break the chemical corrosion bond between the steel bolts and aluminum head.

If you use heat use nothing hotter than a propane torch and be very careful with it.

You can get them out with out busting them off.

It takes patience, lots of patience.

[first timer]

propane won't cut it, use map gas, the head wll disapate lots of heat so it will be a little tricky getting the bolts hot, i say give each bolt about 5 minutes of heat moving the flame around some, after that hit it with some pb blaster, i have heard wax works well too. Then while it is still hot loosen it a little bit not forcing it to much, then tighten it, then loosen it more then tighten it and keep doing that, if it gets difficult, stop for a minute take a breather, then heat it back up and try again, some time it is more effective to tighten the bolt up first then loosen it.

good luck

[jimcor]

Ryan, it is NOT the bolt you want hot but the surrounding area. You want the aluminum to expand while the bolt remains contracted.

[first timer]

i like to get the bolt nice and hot, it helps break up the bond between the head and the bolt, putting heat to the area around never works good for me because the head disapates it to quickly and the bolt is so small it just takes it all and gets hotter anyway. Bassiclly what all the heat is doing is forcing things to move either way you break the bonds and help get things moving.

[txironhead]

A lot of people have recommended melting paraffin wax onto the bolts...apparently the wax will "wick" its way up the threads and they come out perfectly....haven't tried it myself so can't vouch for it, just a suggestion.

What has worked for me is to very slightly tighten the bolt before trying to loosen it. Nothing major, you just want to break the chemically induced bond, and bolts take stress better as you tighten them than when you loosen them. I only have one broken bolt on my GS (knock on wood) and it was there when I got the bike. The only major thing that hasn't been apart on my bike is the clutch.

I second the motion on the impact screwdriver. Those things are fantastic. DO NOT use an impact wrench.

I'd seriously recommend studs or stainless allen head bolts to replace the factory ones after you get them out. If you use stainless (I did), put anti-seize on the threads.

[jimcor]

i like to get the bolt nice and hot, it helps break up the bond between the head and the bolt, putting heat to the area around never works good for me because the head disapates it to quickly and the bolt is so small it just takes it all and gets hotter anyway. Bassiclly what all the heat is doing is forcing things to move either way you break the bonds and help get things moving.

OK, I'll buy that, I dunno about map gas tho'. I've been cautioned by too many not to overheat the head which could lead to warping.

[first timer]

interesting point about the warping, i guess that could happen if you used map gas to heat each bolt sequentially one right after the other and didn't let things cool down a bit first. So lets say this when heating the exhaust bolts get each one good and hot and remove it, wait a bit for things to cool down then do another. That should help keeping warpage down. Sound good Jim?

[twistedwankel]

After 26 years of corrosion/bonding:

Even tho' I was very careful and soaked overnite with PB Blaster, slight tighten and a hammer tap before slowly removing the bolts I still broke one off #4 cylinder right under the head of the bolt. If I would have had one of those Sears broken stud removers I saw on this site I might have gotten it out? Vicegrips just didn't make it. I was able to drill it out and retap the hole with the engine on the bike tho'. I replaced all the bolts with factory bolts but put neverseize on them this time so probably won't be an issue in another 26 years when the exhaust wears out again.

I was lucky enough to find another near new factory exhaust - I didn't want the 4 into 1 because I would have to remove the header everytime I have to change the oil filter. That would suck.

[txironhead]

I just saw this stuff at wal-mart, think it was made by Gunk or PB Blaster, with "freeze-off" action....apparently it's a penetrating oil with a blast of freon or something....claims that the quick freeze breaks the rust free.

Doesn't frozen metal break easier than warm?

[jimcor]

I just saw this stuff at wal-mart, think it was made by Gunk or PB Blaster, with "freeze-off" action....apparently it's a penetrating oil with a blast of freon or something....claims that the quick freeze breaks the rust free.

Doesn't frozen metal break easier than warm?

No link? no picture? No name...You jsut want us to go to Wally World! :-D

[txironhead]

Your source for cheap plastic crap!!!

Actually, no, I just have really bad memory. It just struck me as odd that they would consider freezing a bolt to be a good thing. I guess it all boils down to temperature differences causing expansion and shrinkage to break the bolt free, but I still don't like the idea of making a bolt brittle.

Just did a search, apparently Loctite has something called Freeze and Release Spray, too. Also something called Cold Shock showed up.

Okay, found it. CRC Freeze-Off.

BTW, it was sitting right next to an orange can of spray lube called Jig-a-Loo. WTH?

[jimcor]

Think about it for a second, this stuff might turn out to be the 'bomb'. You heat the head gently with a propane torch, still the bolt is going to get hot ,too. So you got the head warm you make a 'guard' out of paper or plastic, to keep the freeze spray off of it and you spray the bolt, whack it with the drift and hammer one last time for luck and the difference in expansion rates lets you twist the bolt out almost effortlessly. Then you wake up and...will it work? Dunno mate. But I'm sure willing to try. Sure makes sense to me.