Electrical wiseguys needed for GS1100GL

[gert du prez]

Model: 1982 GS1100GLZ, regulator/rectifier issues (but I will come back on that later)...
I checked the wiring diagram of my bike (found in the Clymer manual I just purchased), and there I noticed that,
in contradiction with all other GS models mentioned in there, the 3 alternator wires from the GS1100GL do NOT all go
directly to the RR. There seems to be one wire that goes into Green and is connected to a Red (which I thought should have gone to the battery ?) ?
The wiring diagram also showed what I suspected, that I'm a electrical dumbo...
Can I connect the 3 altornator wires DIRECTLY to the RR, and forget the one going 'in the wilderness' ? What would happen if I do ?
Will I lose my headlights ?
Who can explain me in short (or in long, if you can live with that) some guidelines for understanding my wiring diagram ? I
want to know what happens, but it is hard to tackle a wiring diagram if you have no wizzkid sitting next to you to answer your questions ...
I have checked the posts on the forum and already learned a lot of interesting electrical stuff, but still more questions
in my head than possible answers...
Who can help me out ?

thanks in advance,

Gert

 

[rustybronco]

Keep in mind i'm looking at a gs850gl wiring diagram not a gs1100gl, I can't imagine yours is any different.

Model: 1982 GS1100GLZ, regulator/rectifier issues (but I will come back on that later)...

in contradiction with all other GS models mentioned in there, the 3 alternator wires from the GS1100GL do NOT all go directly to the RR.

In effect yes it does go directly to the regulator, it just takes a long route through the harness.

can I connect the 3 altornator wires DIRECTLY to the RR, and forget the one going 'in the wilderness' ?

Yes, but why would you want to?

What would happen if I do ?
Will I lose my headlights ?
Gert

nothing, no

don't hack up the harness if at all possible it just hurts the next one working on it, or include a copy of the wiring diagram with modifications to the next owner.

 

[gert du prez]

difference in wiring diagram

difference in wiring diagram

When I look at the wiring diagram of the GS1100GL then 1 of the three alternator wires is not connected directly to the RR, whereas in the GS850 wiring diagram that is the case...

Is this a known difference ? or has Clymer made an error in printing wiring diagrams ? I'm totally puzzled why this looks different in my book...

 

[Steve]

A brief discussion on the charging system on GS bikes:

The stator is a 3-phase AC generator with crankshaft-mounted permanent magnets. The faster the engine turns, the more voltage and current is produced. The AC is converted to DC in the rectifier, then excess voltage/current is shunted to ground through the regulator. The capacity of the stator is chosen based on the electrical requirements of the bike.

Before 1981, many, if not all, of the GS bikes had a headlight switch. If the headlight was turned off, the regulator had to shunt a LOT of excess current. This created a lot of excess heat. To minimize the problem, one phase of the stator was routed to the headlight switch to power the headlight. If the light was off, so was that leg of the stator.

Some 1981 bikes still had the switch, but it was mechanically locked so it was ON all the time (this was a new regulation in the United States). By 1982 most of those left handgrips with the switch had been used and no headlight switches were seen. However, the wiring harness still had the wires going to the grip because not all countries where the GS was used required the headlight ON all the time.

Routing all three stator wires to the recitifier/regulator will not harm the operation of the bike unless you have a headlight switch and run with the headlight OFF. Even then, it won't hurt it outright, but it certainly won't help.

Somewhat interesting sidenote here...I have tested the output of the stator and found that one phase puts out just a bit more than the headlight consumes, so it actually charges better with the headlight on and all 3 phases working than it does with the light off and only 2 phases working. 8-[


.

 

[gert du prez]

has anyone ever thought of posting a course in 'how to read a wiring diagram' like the carb cleanup series or so, ? You all seem to know such a lot about anything of the GS, if it only were possible for me to download all your knowledge...

Steve, could you please explain in brief to me on how the third wire (going to the headlight) is indirectly attached to the RR ?

I have a replacement RR on a GS1100GL I bought recently for changing my faulty RR, but it has 9 (!) output wires (and therefore I started totally freaking out even with the simple wiring diagram of my original bike...)

 

[SPARKSS]

Hi Gert - Good idea on the diagram reading.
The 3rd wire from the stator was routed up to the headlight switch where it saw a seperate normally open pair of contacts and then back to the 3rd input side of the rectifier. They did this to lower the AC power input to the rectifier when there was a lesser need with the headlight turned off. This lowers the heat dissipated by the rectifier and the regulator - a good thing. When the headlight is on, this represents a significant amount of load for the bikes small electrical system and the 3rd wire boosts the power available to compensate.

If you wire that wire direct.......run with your headlight on all the time or switch it on shortly after startup (assuming the rest of the system works correctly).

Now for that 9 wire box you bought......Are you sure this is a rectifier or rectifier/regulator unit? Sounds more like one of those self cancelling turn signal controllers.

 

[Steve]

Steve, could you please explain in brief to me on how the third wire (going to the headlight) is indirectly attached to the RR ?

Looking in my Clymer manual (#M376, includes 850-1100 shaft drive, from 1979-1984) I think there is a mistake in the 1100L diagram. The diagram for the 1100G is not a whole lot different from my 850L, and I would suspect the 1100L should not be much different either. I just examined all the other diagrams, and the one for the '82-'83 1100GL is the only one that is wrong. If you look on any of the other diagrams (except the '79 models), at the bottom is an item called "alternator", you will see the left leg go up and a bit to the left, to a thick black bar that is under the pictures for the horn, engine stop switch and starter button. There, the wire loops over, comes back down through the thick bar (it's actually a white connector on the bike, under the fuel tank), then back to the r/r. If you look at the diagram for the '79 850, you can see how the wire was originally routed to the headlight switch. It did not power the light directly, it was only switched by another set of poles on the headlight switch.

If you look at the wiring harness on your bike, you will see where the wire from the stator connects to a wire that disappears into the main harness. Near that, you will find another wire that comes out of the main harness and has a connector that goes to the r/r. It is possible to connect the stator wire directly to the r/r, but you might need to adapt the connectors. The advantage of doing this is you will eliminate 3 connections in the circuit. Any connection can introduce the possibility of corrosion and a bad connection. May as well minimize the number of connections.

Hope that helps.


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[gert du prez]

now that you confirm that the wiring diagram is not correct for my GS1100GL in Clymer, I feel a bit less dumb...I searched for hours with a pencil, following every line, but just couldn't imagine why I failed the logic.

Hope that anyone tackles the lessons in wiring explanation very soon !
I will post the spare RR data (make, model, type number) tomorrow, so that one of you guys might help me out on what that means...

 

[bimmerboy750]

The wiring diagram on my 81 550TX shows the third stator wire running up to the headlight switch and back to the R/R. BUT The diagram shows it as a Double-Pole Single-Throw switch. According to the diagram, this 3rd leg does NOT pass through the headlamp. One pole in the headlight switch completes the circuit for the headlamp, the other pole in the switch completes the circuit for the 3rd stator leg and R/R. The two poles don't touch each other inside the switch, according to the drawing. A continuity test later this week will verify that the drawing is right or wrong (at least for the 81 550). If the drawing is wrong (switch poles are tied together), then the 3rd leg is in parallel with the headlamp circuit. If the drawing is correct (switch poles are not tied), the 3rd leg does not dump into the headlamp circuit.

I happen to be interested in this because that 3rd stator wire gets hot enough to melt my insulation, and heats up my red wire coming out of my R/R. If I open the headlight switch, everything's nice and cool. So, I'm in the process of troubleshooting this.

Rick
81 GS550TX

 

[rustybronco]

has anyone ever thought of posting a course in 'how to read a wiring diagram' like the carb cleanup series or so, (and therefore I started totally freaking out even with the simple wiring diagram of my original bike...)

Yes I have thought of it, and i'll see if I can do it someday soon.
Basic electronics 101...
How to read wiring diagrams...
how to check the portion of the electrical system you are having trouble with...
How to test components.
How to properly repair wiring so as not to become listed on the hack p.o. post of shame...

 

[Steve]

The diagram shows it as a Double-Pole Single-Throw switch. According to the diagram, this 3rd leg does NOT pass through the headlamp. One pole in the headlight switch completes the circuit for the headlamp, the other pole in the switch completes the circuit for the 3rd stator leg and R/R. The two poles don't touch each other inside the switch, according to the drawing.

Different words, but that's exactly what I was trying to say.

If you look at the diagram for the '79 850, you can see how the wire was originally routed to the headlight switch. It did not power the light directly, it was only switched by another set of poles on the headlight switch.

 

[bimmerboy750]

I guess I'm trying to understand why some claim that excess voltage is "dumped" to the headlight from the charging system. That would be A/C voltage mixed in with DC in parallel? You would have 60-80 ACV superimposed on 12 DCV? Here's two models that say this is not the case. I plan to take the 3rd leg straight to the R/R with passing thru the switch to see if that affects the cooked wire. My hunch is that that part of the R/R is bad. I'm planning for a Honda R/R conversion.

 

[rustybronco]

That would be A/C voltage mixed in with DC in parallel? You would have 60-80 ACV superimposed on 12 DCV?

I'll answer this now and the rest when I get home if not answered.
No you don't have 60-80 volts superimposed on 12volts d.c., you have coming out of the rectifier a full wave rectification of about 30-40 volts d.c. (d.c. voltage with a ripple-not pure d.c.)

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_3/4.html
scroll about 3/4 of the way down and it shows 3 phase full wave rectified

 

[walt]

I will try to scan a page from the factory manual showing the wiring dia.

 

[bimmerboy750]

Thanks rustybronco. I was referring to the source side of the schematic you're referring to (a leg of the stator output)... most definitely AC, not the load side. Headlight circuit is derived from the Load side of that schematic... full-wave rectified DC. Some make the argument that a stator leg is fed to the headlight circuit as some sort of overload protection for the R/R. I say that's incorrect.

 

[Steve]

Let's see if I can make it a bit plainer.

Bikes produced long before your 1982 model had a switchable headlight. That headlight switch had TWO sets of contacts. One set passed current from the third leg of the stator to the r/r, the other set passed current from the headlight fuse to the dimmer switch. In other words, one set handled the AC voltage from the stator, the other handled the DC voltage the bike actually runs on.
They never mixed or got superimposed on each other. :shock:

YOUR bike probably does not even have a switch on the left hand grip. Most of them got used up in 1981. However, the wiring in the harness still goes up to a connector under the fuel tank where it used to go to the headlight switch, then back down to the r/r. Since there is no headlight switch, there is just a loop of wire that sends the current back down the correct wire to the r/r. If you look at the link above that 8trackmind gave you, you can see that little loop. Look about the middle of what should be the top of the diagram, there is a label that says "Handlebar switch (R)". Under that are three squared-off loops. The innermost one is the one for the stator wire.


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[8trackmind]

I will try to scan a page from the factory manual showing the wiring dia.

Diagram courtesy of Walt. :-D

 

[walt]

Thanks Jeff. That is a dia. for an '82 GS1100E

 

[gert du prez]

Shindengen SH232-12V replacement ???

Shindengen SH232-12V replacement ???

Hi,

I have a spare parts GS that - apparently - has a Shindengen SH232-12v regulator/rectifier.

This unit has 6 wires: 3 input and 3 output

3 input from alternator (I now understand that already)

3 output: green (grounding)
red (charging the battery)
purple (or black, couldn't see) going to fuse box

can someone please tell me the story of this RR ? what is the wire going to the fuse box ? what does it do ? anyone with experience with this unit ?
would it be wise to use this as a replacement for my blown RR ?

 

[rustybronco]

Hi,

purple (or black, couldn't see) going to fuse box

black goes to a +12v source that is always on with the key on (hooked mine to the tail light wiring).

do a search for a sh232-12 on this board, lots of info.