Roller Rockers??

[Guest]

For an 83 GS550E? Can you get them? How do you install?

[Steve]

Why do want them?
The bike works fine as is, has a 10k redline, and is plenty spunky.
Roller rockers might reduce friction just a bit and might give you half a horsepower at the wheel, but would you really notice it? 8-[


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[Schweisshund]

I got in a discussion with a friend of mine about roller rockers. He is a former mechanic for the US Marines, his dad has a small "empire" in our town and has his own shop - therefore, this buddy of mine is always working on automobiles, not motorcycles.

He told me that by installing roller rockers on a motorcycle, it would greatly improve horsepower, greatly reduce friction, and greatly improve gas mileage - therefore greatly improving the overall life of the engine. I have no idea what in tarnation all his fuss was over roller rockers, because I had never heard of them. He did say you can install roller rockers on any engine and his recommendation was to do so. Apparently it has something to do with the valves, and the motion of the valves. I have been researching this online.

If what he said is true, I would want to install them for improving the overall life of the engine - not for a faster bike.

[txironhead]

Your friend sounds like my nephew....they get a "new" idea into their head and think they're experts on the subject. My nephew swears that putting a supercharger on his bone stock '82 Crown Vic 5.0 will give him better gas mileage.....I told him keeping it under 90 would do that! (and to quit smoking so much cheap weed)

Roller rockers are great inventions. I've installed them on everything from a warmed-over 5.0 'Stang to a blown 454 Chevelle. The power increase is not really appreciable. What does improve (somewhat) is throttle response and a quieter engine.

For the cost of installing roller rockers on a GS, especially a 16-valve, you could completely rebuild it with quality parts. If you're worried about the longevity of your engine, the best advice I can give is run synthetic or synthetic blend oil, change your oil and filter regularly, install a Dyna ignition and a Honda regulator conversion, an oil cooler if you're feeling adventurous, and keep it tuned and happy. Matter of fact, regular oil changes and carb synchronization are the two things that will keep your engine together the longest. There are no proven reports that roller rockers extend engine life, and the cost (even if they are available) isn't really worth the expense unless you're building an all-out drag bike where that extra tenth of a second counts.

[Schweisshund]

Just a question about synthetic oil

The owners manual, and repair manual cautioned against using any type of oil other than motorcycle grade oil. Apparently, oil that is NOT motorcycle grade oil interferes with the clutch friction. Is this true? I am currently using motorcycle grade oil at $4.00 a quart. I can get 5 quarts of synthetic for $15.00

[txironhead]

That is an entirely different can of worms. I've used Castrol GTX in motorcycles for years with no ill effects. Several people here are using Rotella diesel oil. Others use Mobil 1 synthetic or blend. Do a search here for oil and you'll find tons of posts. I used to run Kawachem oil exclusively until an experienced mechanic suggested I save $20 an oil change and use Castrol. I've never experienced clutch slippage or any other problems. Keep in mind, the dealership wants you to spend $8-12 a quart for their specific "formulated for your bike" oil. Do the search for threads on oil and form your own opinions, I can only tell you what has worked for me.

[Schweisshund]

I also use Castrol GTX High mileage, but in my 95 Jeep Grand Cherokee Orvis Edition (which, by the way, needs one new piston ring - 300k miles). I also replace a quart of oil with Lucas oil. I have been doing the same thing for my Honda Nighthawk CB 700 S - used Castrol 10w40 GTX high mileage and half a quart of Lucas. No problems with my nighthawk - however, it pops (small backfires) and started doing this after I fouled a spark plug (and it lost some power too) - I am sure it had nothing to do with the oil I was using, and more to do with a need to adjust the timing chain. Or, it could be running to lean.

[gustovh]

Well I am a miserly guy, can't afford synth oil so have been useing Penzoil 10-40 forever. I change the oil and filter every 2000 miles in my old machines and 3-4000 miles in my new. None of them use any apreciable amount of oil between changes and have had zero failures due to oil or oil related problems not involving gas. Just my 2 cents.
V

[Zooks]

Roller rockers are for Hot Rod engines and speedway cars, not your GS.

[bwringer]

On the larger parts and longer distances involved in large V-8 engines, roller rockers make sense for extracting that last 1% of performance from a high-lift cam. Plus, you usually have to install different rockers anyway when you install a high-lift/aggressive profile cam with heavy-duty springs and operate the engine well beyond the factory redline.

On a 550E, the parts are much smaller and lighter, and you're certainly not installing radical camshafts or operating the engine beyond its design limits. The stock valvetrain will easily outlast the rest of the engine.

As far as oil, please keep in mind that the manuals were written 20+ years ago. Even the cheapest house brand sludge from Wal*Mart in 2007 is light-years beyond anything available in 1985. Stick with anything between 10W-40 and 20W-50 and you literally can't go wrong.

Avoid oils marked "energy conserving", since they contain friction modifiers that allegedly interfere with clutches. These oils are only available in thinner grades anyway, so you usually don't need to worry about it.

As far as the synthetic vs. mineral (or "dino") oil debate, many feel there are benefits to synthetics. Personally, I've noted that synthetics tend to last a bit longer, but YMMV. I personally haven't noticed any difference between motorcycle oil and auto oil.

Synthetics will NOT cause your engine to leak. This is a myth left over from the '70s (some early synthetics contained additive packages that were different from ordinary oils and affected old deteriorated seals) and handed down as gospel ever since. Feel free to switch between synthetic, semi-synthetic, and mineral oil as the whim strikes or something goes on sale. It won't make the slightest difference.

I can't recall one single instance of a GS engine failing or wearing out prematurely because of using the wrong oil. As long as there's some sort of oil in there and you change it regularly, find something else to worry about.

[Steve]

Synthetics will NOT cause your engine to leak. This is a myth left over from the '70s (some early synthetics contained additive packages that were different from ordinary oils and affected old deteriorated seals) and handed down as gospel ever since. Feel free to switch between synthetic, semi-synthetic, and mineral oil as the whim strikes or something goes on sale. It won't make the slightest difference.

Brian, I was agreeing with everything you said, until that last statement.

Back in the days when I did not have as much to keep me busy, I did tune-ups and minor engine work for some of the single women that my wife worked with. The insides of some of those engines were literally caked with sludge. In fact, one of them had so much build-up on the inside of the rocker covers that I had a hard time pulling them off the engine. There was so much build-up, there were only pockets where the rockers and pushrods were moving. :shock: When asked what kind of oil they used, the answer was usually "I don't know...whatever is on sale." I have seen the inside of engines run exclusively on the lowest grade oil available at a particular store. That engine was rather clean. I am firmly convinced that the different additive packages are not necessarily compatible with each other.

My suggestion would be to pick an oil, ANY oil, and stick with it. Yes, you can switch to synthetic or back, if you wish, but don't be changing brands every time.

While it is true that synthetic oil will not actually cause your engine to leak, it does have a better detergent package that will clean some sludge from inside the engine that might be plugging a small leak. That will then allow the engine to leak, but not cause it to leak.

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[Nessism]

The insides of some of those engines were literally caked with sludge. In fact, one of them had so much build-up on the inside of the rocker covers that I had a hard time pulling them off the engine. There was so much build-up, there were only pockets where the rockers and pushrods were moving. :shock: When asked what kind of oil they used, the answer was usually "I don't know...whatever is on sale." I have seen the inside of engines run exclusively on the lowest grade oil available at a particular store. That engine was rather clean. I am firmly convinced that the different additive packages are not necessarily compatible with each other.

My suggestion would be to pick an oil, ANY oil, and stick with it. Yes, you can switch to synthetic or back, if you wish, but don't be changing brands every time.

While it is true that synthetic oil will not actually cause your engine to leak, it does have a better detergent package that will clean some sludge from inside the engine that might be plugging a small leak. That will then allow the engine to leak, but not cause it to leak.

Steve,
The reason those engines slugged up is because the women never changed their oil. In my last job I worked for a major OE automotive manufacturer and we had all the warranty return engines come in for analysis. It was very clear by looking at the sludge in some of the engines that they had never had the oil changed – under the valve cover it looked like chocolate pudding covered the valve train. Most of these engines wound up throwing a rod at about 20k miles as a result of oil starvation from sludge plugging up the oiling system. The standard oil change interval for those engines is 7500 miles. Even at that, there were never any problems as long as the oil was changed in 10k intervals. The key point: change your oil. The type of oil is secondary to just changing it. My preference is synthetic because air cooled GS engines can see sump temperatures in the 300F range in the summer which is killer hot. Synthetic has better staying power, for lack of a better description, in heat like this. Second choice is diesel engine oil since it has additives for severe duty. My understanding is that diesel oil additives will foul catalytic converters but these same additives are good for the valve train on motorcycles. At any rate, that’s my $0.02 (and overpriced at that).

[txironhead]

An ASE mechanic friend of mine also gave me the same advice of not mixing oils. Basically for the same reason, the additives are incompatible.

I'm quite happy with Castrol GTX in both my motorcycle and my car. My last car had 275k on it when it finally died, and I must admit I didn't change the oil as much as it needed. I'm more religious with oil changes on my bikes.

There are a ton of posts here on oil advice, oil filter preference (I use Fram with no problems), synthetic vs regular, grades of gas, etc. What it all boils down to is forget the fancy parts upgrades and consistently maintain your bike with quality products and it won't let you down.

[Nessism]

An ASE mechanic friend of mine also gave me the same advice of not mixing oils. Basically for the same reason, the additives are incompatible.

Sorry to turn this into an oil thread, and sorry if this seems contrary to your post txironhead, but in working for a major OE automotive manufacturer for more than 20 years, I’ve never once heard about problems due to mixing SAE approved oils. I agree with using quality oil and not worrying.

[Big Jay]

Roller rockers are great inventions. I've installed them on everything from a warmed-over 5.0 'Stang to a blown 454 Chevelle. The power increase is not really appreciable. What does improve (somewhat) is throttle response and a quieter engine.

We are talking two completely different animals here. A roller rocker in a pushrod motor will not change the geometry very much as it is only a roller tip rocker. A roller rocker for a GS Susuki ( I have one sitting on my desk) radically changes the geometry because the cam lobe is riding on the roller. The cam lobe profile had to be totally different when changing from flat tapper and roller tappet/rocker arm.

The reason they were not successful was no one was able to design a cam that would work with them.

Many years ago when pro stock bikes were using GS1000 heads, we made some radius top tappets for one of the top teams, trying to make it act like a roller tappet. Same deal. They couldn't get a cam design that would work. Of course, they are now using radius tappets in pro stock as they have figured it out.

Jay