runs lean but still gtg carbon on plugs

[SPARKSS]

You're into a little bit of a quagmire right now because you've made changes with the problem persisting (though you said in the initial history that it ran correctly with the previous setup). A leaking petcock, by itself will not cause flooding. The inlet needles in the carbs (operated by each float) are there to shut off fuel to the carb when the bowl is full.........of course if you have a leaking needle valve, then yes, having a leaking petcock will cause engine flooding of that cylinder. Are all cylinders flooding or running rich? If so, another common denominator could be inlet air......you're using individual filters so again - are all 4 cyl's running rich? Did you try running briefly with no filters (no dirt roads eh!).

For a 1 cylinder rich problem that DIDN'T OCCUR before you need to focus on what changed for that cylinder.......for a 4 CYLINDER problem that DIDN'T OCCUR BEFORE, you need to keep in mind common denominator type causes......unless all of your carbs are now flooding AND your petcock is leaking to feed them all, then OR all your pods are plugged OR mechanical timing jumped OR timing advance is stuck, then it might be otherwise ignition related. You asked about fuel in the crankcase.....excess raw fuel into the cylinders, especially if mis or not firing will tend to wash the cyl walls causing loss of compression until corrected. Draining the oil, you'll notice a distinct fuel smell associated from the contents (you can confirm this often by lighting a small sample with a match etc.; whereas straight oil will seldom ignite readily by itself and substantial fuel will cause an easy flame to start).

Another common possibility, if running the original type carbs, is that the enrichment valve shaft (choke) is stuck lifting the valves to the enrich position (or partially so).

Is your history accurate as originally posted?

[rattman1]

yes my history is correct!
i'll say that last year the bike ran decent... not perfect.
there was a flat spot around about 4000 rpms... but other than that it was fine. most importantly... the plugs were not fouling out last year.

i checked the timing of the dyna s and it appears to be just right.

floats are good. float needles appeared to be ok... but i'm going to look at them again to make sure the tips were not worn.

but even if one of the tips is worn, would that cause all 4 cylinders to foul out?

yes... ALL of the carbs are flooding.

i suppose i could try riding the bike with the pods off.

i have a very stupid question..... i can't remember how to check the valves. and are there more than one type of valve? if so, which ones should i be checking?

at this point i am totally stumped!

[rattman1]

also... the choke APPEARS to be fine..... but one interesting thing i just noticed!

the starter jet on one of the choke circuit fuel pickup tubes is missing. (the little pin hole is gone, leaving a larger hole)

can that part even be replaced?

I'm assuming that the starter jet and choke circuit fuel pickup only operate when the choke is on???

could this be a contributing factor??

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Only time I've seen ALL 4 carbs overflow through the bowl dump lines, is if the owner followed the incorrect float level adjustments. I suppose very dirty carbs or carbs with worn parts could do the same thing but I've never put on a set of carbs with those conditions.
You want to set them at .94" which is exactly in the middle of the factory set range.
It sounds like you have a petcock from an '80 model and it doesn't operate right.
If you have the carbs clean, the floats set right, the petcock operating right, the stock 15 pilot jet, the pilot fuel screw underneath set to approx' 1 1/4 turn out, and the side air screws adjusted for best idle (typically 1 3/4 turns out), then the bike shouldn't foul plugs while just putting around town (mostly on the pilot circuit).
They are other things of course.
You must have good compression. The valves may need to be set correctly. Your mechanical ignition advancer must be operating right.
The filters must be clean and oiled correctly, if they require oiling.
The plugs should be NGK B8ES gapped at approx' .027". Spark must be a good bluish/white color.
The carbs must be synched with a vacuum tool to truely judge performance or get accurate plug reads.
I can also tell you from experience that if the pods and pipe are flowing well, then your decision to raise the jet needle just 1 position isn't enough. You need to set the needles at their richest position (bottom) and that may not be enough in some cases.
You'll probably need minimum 125 mains.
Also, remove the 2 floatbowl vent lines and leave the ports open.

[t3rmin]

floats are good. float needles appeared to be ok... but i'm going to look at them again to make sure the tips were not worn.

but even if one of the tips is worn, would that cause all 4 cylinders to foul out?

yes... ALL of the carbs are flooding.

By flooding, do you mean they're all leaking, or all exhibiting rich symptoms?

As I've said, I really doubt the float level is the cause of *leaks*, or loading up so much that it dies after only a short time (unless your levels are WAY off).

But a too-high fuel level could definitely be what's blackening your plugs.

You may have two issues here.

[rattman1]

by flooding... i mean that the plugs are gtg carboned up to the point that they begin to fail within 5 minutes of riding. Fyi... for the most part I'm on a street that is 55-60 mph.

[t3rmin]

Can you get it to last longer if you run it harder? The floats cease to be so much of a factor at bigger throttle openings. Are you running it easy or hard?

[rattman1]

i run it between 4 and 6 thousand rpms for the most part. plugs seem to get fouled regardless of the speed.

once the plugs are fouled the bike runs crappiest at low rpms and not as bad at hi rpms... but i really have to get above 5000 rpms to see a slight improvement...

what do you guys think about raising the floats above 24mm so that even less fuel gets into the bowls?

also... did anyone catch my observation a few posts back about one of the starter jets missing?

thanks so much everyone!
i'm really stumped!

[Clone]

[-o<
Keith is the god of carbs. He will set you straight. Listen to him.
Your plugs are fouling, there is no way your bike could be lean.
You have problems which you have identified, but say it is not the problem.
If it is broken fix it. Petcock, fix it or replace it.
Reset the float height to the correct levels with the correct procedures.
Replace the little orings under the float seats.
Set the carbs as Keith has described.
Check the valves, it only takes an hour or so.
Run the bike and do a chop.

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Yes, the carb with the missing starter jet will run very rich with the choke operated. Hard to say, but it's possible there are other things wrong with the carbs if you found that kind of damage.
Don't try to compensate for another problem and make things worse. Leave the floats set at .94".
If the petcock leaks, rebuild or replace it.
I'm assuming your rich/fouling plugs are after general riding around, correct?? That means speeds of 60 and below/city type riding? If so, then you're riding on the pilot circuit with some overlap from the jet needle circuit. If your problem is carb related, consider this...
Your jet needles are set at the 4th position from the top, 1 richer than factory. With your mods, there's no way that the jet needle position is to blame. If anything, my experience says your needles are actually at a lean position. Of course, if a PO used different needles or there's an unknown here, the sky's the limit as to what may be wrong. We can only assume the basic components are stock in the carbs.
A richness possibility is that the factory plastic jet needle spacers were not installed correctly or the top one could be missing?? Verify with us that the two spacers are in correct order, thicker one directly on top the e-clip, and thinner spacer under the clip. If that's good...
Your mains should be around 125 and up to 130, depending on how the bike is flowing. You don't mention what the mains are but if you haven't done any 3/4 to full throttle riding, then incorrect mains would not be causing your richness problem. I only mention it for the future and to eliminate a cause.
Your pilot jet, if stock, should be 15, is it?? Are the jets tightened correctly? Your pilot fuel screw (underneath) should be approx' 1 1/4 turn out from LIGHTLY seated. You can try 1 turn out to see if it helps. I seriously doubt that less than that is needed. At the point of 1 turn out, the pilot fuel screws are not the cause of the fouling.
Very important, the side air screws must be adjusted using the highest rpm method. Try setting them initially to 1 3/4 from lightly seated. At that position, any richness problem will not be caused by the air screws. They should be set using the highest rpm method though.
The 2 floatbowl lines must be removed when running pods. Are they??
The carbs must be clean inside. Pay special attention to dirty air jets at the filter side/lower side of carb throat and the needle jets tiny holes (what the jet needle slides through). They can cause a rich mixture.
All inner o-rings must be in good condition. The o-ring that goes on the needle jet/bleedpipe is critical to stop a rich mixture.
Do the float valve needle seats each have a gasket? Either fiber or thin metal?
If you mixed up the valves and their respective seats, that can cause leaking as they wear as a set and shouldn't be swapped around.
The choke circuit must be operating correctly. The plungers must close and seat completely and not be lifted at all by the lifters when fully down. Do they? The rubber at the bottom of each choke plunger/tip must be in good condition or the resulting leaking will cause richness.
Floats must float. Shake them. Hear anything inside? Do they float up when held under in a bowl of fuel?
If any fuel is coming out of the dump line mounted under each bowl, you have an incorrect float level or sticking floats or damaged/missing float valve seat gasket, or damaged/weak springs in the valve or obvious "wear ring" around the tip of the valves.
The carbs must then be bench synched and then vacuum synched. Are they??
I was trying to focus on rich related carb problems. If all the above is verified OK, the carbs should be good.
If still a problem, that leads us to spark quality. In fact, you can reverse the order of this advice if you like.
From what little I know of your current jetting, your dark plugs may be more related to poor spark. You have a Dyna, but what about the coils and electrical connections and battery/voltages?
Have you verified that ALL connections are clean and tight? That means coil connections, plug caps, primary terminals (check for damaged strands), plug leads condition, harness connections, battery connections and grounds.
What does the spark look like in a darker area? With a clean/fresh NGK B8ES plug, correctly gapped at approx' .027", it should be bluish/white and reasonably "fat" at all 4 plugs. If very faint or orange in color, you have the basic weak spark.
What is battery voltage, running and not running? How much at the coils? If you have an ohm meter, what is the resistance at the primary terminals and the secondary (plug cap to plug cap)?
Connections, especially under certain conditions, can build up corrosion from just sitting. Coils get weak without notice. Battery voltage effects the whole system.

[rattman1]

Keith,

You must have spent a lot of time on that post!

Thank you so much for your generocity with your time!

I know that I will have questions regarding your directions, but I am going to start from the top of your list and work my way down.

Once again.... THANK YOU!!!!!:-D

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Well, I try to be complete when answering. Some things are more likely than others but I try to mention them.
Good luck with it.

[brveagle]

Once the plugs foul, change them.. You can try cleaning them, but they will only give you fits...