GS650 doesn't like the cold, left me stranded

[sultan]

I am a relatively new owner of a 1983 GS650 GLD, 22K miles.

While I've had a few minor problems with the bike, it's been nothing major and the bike has been pretty reliable...until this morning.

Usually the bike stays in the garage (unheated) and I know I've started it cold in temps down to the high 30's, and ridden in the mid-30s. The temp last night got down to 31 degrees. Not enough to freeze the gas lines, but enough to **** off the bike to the point that it didn't want to start. It was a dry night, no rain.

It would roll over just fine, even sputtered once or twice, but would never catch. I would hit the starter for 10-15 seconds, wait about 10-15 seconds, and try again. After 2-3 minutes, I'd give the starter a break for 5 minutes, and then try again. I tried until the battery was dead. (about 15-20 minutes.) I had to catch a bus this morning.

The battery is new, the spark plugs are new, the petcock was set to "reserve" and the gas tank read about 1/3 of a tank. The previous owner said that he'd had the carbs rebuilt within the past year (though I don't have any receipts or evidence to prove that). The bike only has electric start (no kick starter). I had the choke full-on and didn't touch the throttle until the third iteration of the starting process, where I was trying just about anything I could think of that might affect the problem.

So, the bike has been sitting all day (it's 40 degrees now) and I need to go rescue it and at least bring it back home. I'd like ask the following specific questions, but if anyone has any other advice for my situation, please feel free to give it.

1. Can you use starter fluid to assist in starting a bike the way you can an older car, by spraying it into the air filter, without damaging the engine?

2. Are there any tips/tricks for starting a bike in colder weather?

3. Is it possible to flood a bike? If so, is the 'fix' the same as on a car? Hold the throttle wide open and hit the starter?

4. For starting issues, the manual says to check "fuel, spark, and compression" in that order. Once I verify that the fuel is flowing, the spark is sparking, and the pistons are compressing, what else can I look, specifically, in order to help the bike's cold-starting abilities?

Any other advice would be appreciated.

Thank you.

[Big T]

If it doesn't want to start with the starter, try bump starting it.

Yes, you can flood it.

Mine will turn over but not fire once it gets cold enough. Rolling it down the drive starts it every time.

[hampshirehog]

My thoughts on your Qs:

1. You can use starter fluid but I don't think it's ever a good idea. You can get pre-ignition which puts a strain on things unnecessarily. Better to find out what's wrong.

2. All bikes seem to like different things to start, whether it's cold or hot. You'll need to find out what yours wants and keep at it.

3. Yep - dead easy to flood a bike, and I suspect that's what's happened to yours (but it could be a whole host of other things). If it doesn't fire up quickly on choke, turn the choke off and give it a couple of whirrs on the starter. Then try choke back on. Or pull out the plugs and give them a quick heat up with a cigarette lighter - often you only have to pull one to get it popping into life.

4. If you've got sparks and you haven't altered the timing it's unlikely to be an electrical fault (though you could try changing plugs as sometimes they won't spark under compression). If your plugs are wet however you've got an electrical fault (or you've flooded it). If your sparks are fine then you check your fuel from tank to carbs then in the carb itself - that's fun in there but loads of info on this site. If it's none of those you need to start looking at compression (valve clearances in particular).

Wally

[Suzuki_Don]

If you can find the carb bowl vent tubes give 3 or 4 puffs on each one and it should start. They are usually under the seat. There are 2 of them.

[tconroy]

I have the same bike and Had that problem once not too long ago.I put it in a friends garage instead of my heated one and the next morning it would not start with full choke and little throttle.This is what i did to start it.Put it on prime, use half choke and turn the throttle 1/4 turn.I have never had a problem in cold weather since.for some reason full choke and cold weather seems to flood bikes very easily.I too thought i would need full choke cause it was cold.My bike has never had to have full choke.Try this and see what happens.

[Casino Joe]

Adjust your valves. My old FZR used to do that all the time when it was cold because the valve clearance was too tight and valves would hang open.


Sent from my iPhone

[BassCliff]

Hey howdy hey!

Mr. sultan,

I don't think I've had the pleasure, so let me start by saying...

Let it be known that on this day you are cordially and formally welcomed to the GSR Forum as a Junior Member in good standing with all the rights and privileges thereof. Let it be known further that good standing can be improved with pictures (not you, your bike)! :-D

If the intake valve clearances are too tight you will have a motor that is hard to start when cold. It can't get enough air/fuel mix into the cylinders. When was the last time you checked your valve clearances? They're supposed to be checked every 4000 miles (yeah, right).

I've never had to put my bike on "prime". Granted, it's been only a little below 50 degrees when I head out in the morning. But I adjusted my valves about three months ago and it made quite a bit of difference all the way around; starting, acceleration, smoothness, etc. Just a thought.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[DimitriT]

I think you just ran the choke initial charge dry. There's a little tube in each carb which fills up with fuel via a tiny hole. This tube holds enough fuel so that the first few times it turns over it will shoot extra fuel into the cylinder and get it started. It takes a little while to fill up this tube once it empties.

The right sequence I found is to crank it about 5 times. Wait two minutes (I know its hard) and then try again. Just letting it crank over and over doesn't do any good.

I have a feeling the trick about blowing air into the vent lines may just force fuel up this little channel faster (or it may provide a time delay which allows it to happen naturally).

Setting it to prime is a good idea too. Remember that gasoline shrinks when it gets cold. That means the fuel level in the carbs will be a bit lower than when you parked. If your float settings were a low to start with you may have gotten the fuel level too low to allow fuel into the jets. Set the petcock to prime and give the bike some time to fill up its carbs.

If it starts with a bump start that means the battery wasn't providing enough juice to run the starter and the ignition at the same time. The only way to tell what shape the battery is in is to have a voltmeter attached. Mine read 11.2 today as I was turning it over (sitting outside all day) and it managed to start up just barely. I need a new battery if I'm gonna ride this winter.

[tconroy]

I think you just ran the choke initial charge dry. There's a little tube in each carb which fills up with fuel via a tiny hole. This tube holds enough fuel so that the first few times it turns over it will shoot extra fuel into the cylinder and get it started. It takes a little while to fill up this tube once it empties.

The right sequence I found is to crank it about 5 times. Wait two minutes (I know its hard) and then try again. Just letting it crank over and over doesn't do any good.

I have a feeling the trick about blowing air into the vent lines may just force fuel up this little channel faster (or it may provide a time delay which allows it to happen naturally).

Setting it to prime is a good idea too. Remember that gasoline shrinks when it gets cold. That means the fuel level in the carbs will be a bit lower than when you parked. If your float settings were a low to start with you may have gotten the fuel level too low to allow fuel into the jets. Set the petcock to prime and give the bike some time to fill up its carbs.

If it starts with a bump start that means the battery wasn't providing enough juice to run the starter and the ignition at the same time. The only way to tell what shape the battery is in is to have a voltmeter attached. Mine read 11.2 today as I was turning it over (sitting outside all day) and it managed to start up just barely. I need a new battery if I'm gonna ride this winter.

He is right about the gas shrinking especially when you put it up warm and it cools down that much. I have a clear gas line and every morning it's cold and I put it on prime first I can see gas filling up the carb bowls till it stops,then she fires right up! ALSO WE NEED PIC'S OF THAT BIKE TOO!!!!

[Greg O.]

I think when you are in the low 30's, you can expect hard starting with these bikes. My 1979 750 is the same way, and will often foul a spark plug when it gets that cold. I have a kick starter (1979 was the last year for them), and find it will start better in the cold using it because it gives all the battery voltage to the ignition. One advantage to the older bikes I suppose.

Greg O.

[TheCafeKid]

Keep in mind my bike is not currently tuned carbwise properly...but i find that if she (my 77 750B) sits for more than a day or so without running, i have to kick the hell out of her to get her going...yes i prime the carbs, but ive yet to find the sweet spot in the choke...hopefully whence i get my carbs dialed in correctly this problem goes away or at least lessens a bit...

[sultan]

Thank you

Many thanks to everyone that replied. I have just a couple pictures of the bike, but I'll post links to what I have at the end of this message. I also tried add an 'avatar' to my profile, and hopefully that will show up now. The bike definitely isn't a looker. The seat is ripped (hope to recover that this winter), the gas tank needs repainted, and it's missing some of the decals (some of which I have ordered and received, but haven't put on the bike yet).

I went back to rescue the bike last night armed with the information from the posts, a lighter (for the spark plugs), two flashlights, jumper cables (yeah, I know you're not supposed to, but there's no hills around to coast-start, and without a kickstart I don't know of any other alternatives), and the address of the nearest auto parts store in case I needed starter fluid.

I choked the bike, hit the starter, and it *almost* fired up right away, sputtered, then died. Second and third tries it just cranked and cranked. I turned off the choke, cranked it again, and got a sputter or two. (At this point I'm rather surprised, because when I left it earlier in the morning the battery was pretty drained...) Choked it again, about half-way, and got it to start after one or two more cranks. Once it was started I had to choke it all the way to keep it idling, at least for a minute or two until it was warmed up a bit. Once it was warmed up I was able to ride it home without a problem

I think the posters who theorized that I had flooded the engine were correct. I was thinking that the bike needed more gas when it's cold. Perhaps not...

So, now that the bike is safely back home, I can play with it a bit more and try to start it on some cold mornings/nights and see which tricks work best. And next time (hopefully there won't be a next time) I get stranded, I'll have a few more tricks to try. I didn't even know about the "carb bowl vent tubes" and I'll have to take a look at my manual to figure out where those are. And I'll add checking the valve clearance (no idea how to do that right now, but that's what the manual is for, right?) to the list of stuff I hope to do over the winter.

Thanks again for the great advice, help, and quick response!

-sultan

1983 Suzuki GS650 GLD:

https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/jsdunlap/public/GS650/Dsc00430.jpg

https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/jsdunlap/public/GS650/Dsc00438.jpg

[physics-teacher]

I can tell you from recent experience with my 650G in 31 degree weather that these bikes can start INSTANTLY if your vqlves are set and the carbs are clean and balanced. Just a touch to the starter with about half choke and off she goes. This is what you can look forward to when you get your problem straightened out.

[BassCliff]

What's more fun than a 25 year old motorcycle?

And I'll add checking the valve clearance (no idea how to do that right now, but that's what the manual is for, right?) to the list of stuff I hope to do over the winter.

That's a good looking bike you have there Mr. sultan. For future reference, feel free to download my pictorial guides, including valve adjustment, at my little BikeCliff website (also linked in my sig below). Please note that these are pictorial guides and are not meant to replace the manual but rather to give you a little more insight as to the procedures. Always check your manual.

My 27 year old seat has started to tear. I have a new Travelcade cover. Hopefully this weekend I'll be able to put it on and make another pictorial guide in the process. The fun never stops! \\/

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[Redman]

Like you said: THe idea of it getting flooded (too much choke for too long) is probably what was happening.

Something else to concider, that had not been mentioned, about trying to start the bike when its cold and it doesnt start right away, especailly if battery isnt the strongest: Try takeing out the headlight fuse.