82 GS1100EZ Charging at 15.63 Volts

[Muser3]

Hi V

Yep! That's after several minutes at many different times charging at 15-16 volts. And after a 20 mile round trip to get the bike's safety inspection that's required here in Tx.
It's a two week old battery.
I'm just now getting the bike running. As soon as I figure how, I will post some pics of a scruffy, rusted, mouse and rat knawed, peed and pooped on pitiful excuse for a bike. She's got her dignity back now and she Rocks!!
Now all I've gotta do is get these details worked out.
Thanks,
Lee

[Suzuki_Don]

How long should a battery hold its charge when the bike is not being used. Should it last for a month without being used and still start off the starter motor. My battery is new and to me it does not seem to last as long as it should. Maybe it is discharging when not in use. Anyone have any input.

Cheers

Don

[earlfor]

A battery that holds a charge level of 12.63 after coming off a battery charger and initially showing 13 volts is a bad battery. If your charging system has been charging in excess of 15 volts, the first thing I would do is check the water level in the battery. It may have boiled half dry. At least add water to bring it back to the full line. I would replace it though.

The correct rate to set your battery charger to is 2 amps output for a motorcycle battery. Rate should be 10% of capacity. Motorcycle batteries (for GS's) are usually 10 to 12 amp, so a rate of 1 to 1.2 amps would be correct, but most chargers have a lowest rate of 2 amps. usually you will have to charge a 12 amp motorcycle battery at a 2 amp rate for 7 1/2 hours to net 12 amps. The rest is lost due to inefficiency of the process.
After charging, and removing the charger, let the battery sit overnight and then check the voltage level on the battery. That reading is what the charge holding potential of your battery is. If its less than 12.6-12.7, its ready for the trash pile. Personally, I discard any battery that will not hold 12.8 overnight.

Earl

Yep! That's after several minutes at many different times charging at 15-16 volts. And after a 20 mile round trip to get the bike's safety inspection that's required here in Tx.
It's a two week old battery.
I'm just now getting the bike running. As soon as I figure how, I will post some pics of a scruffy, rusted, mouse and rat knawed, peed and pooped on pitiful excuse for a bike. She's got her dignity back now and she Rocks!!
Now all I've gotta do is get these details worked out.
Thanks,
Lee

[earlfor]

I see about a 1/10v drop in a month on a fully charged battery not in use. I'm using sealed, glass mat batteries though. I wouldnt think a lead acid type would lose more than .2v per month.

Earl

How long should a battery hold its charge when the bike is not being used. Should it last for a month without being used and still start off the starter motor. My battery is new and to me it does not seem to last as long as it should. Maybe it is discharging when not in use. Anyone have any input.

Cheers

Don

[Suzuki_Don]

Thanks Earl

[Suzuki_Don]

Earl I just took my 550 for a 30 min ride. I have a permanent volt meter on the dash. It is charging between 14 and 14.6V while riding. When I turn off the motor it drops to 12.2V. I just went out and checked it again (30 min since motor was turned off) and it is down to 11.9V. I also checked it with an independent multimeter and it agrees with the reading of 11.9V. Even when it is on 12V it will not turn the starter motor over. The battery is only 3 months old but has not had much use as I have been working on the bike. When the starter is pressed all the lights dim out and stay dim. Any ideas please.

PS This is the second battery from this place in 6 months, the previous one bought in June lasted one month.

Regards

Don

[Matchless]

You will most probably find that one cell is shot. You can determine this if you can measure the SG of the acid in the cells. It should be above 1250 if fully charged. This could be due to a factory fault or just a poor make of battery, but could also be damaged by incorrect charging (over charging), especially when the battery was charged for the first time.
Either your battery is not being charged and is partially flat, then all the SG's in each cell will most probably read about 1150 or lower, but usually about the same or is full with one cell failing the battery is full the SG's will all be at 1250 or higher on all but much lower on the failing cell.
If the battery is failing under load the voltage will drop very low under high load, such as when the starter is engaged. This can also happen if you have a bad earth connection and can be picked up by cranking the motor and then feeling the heavy earth connecton on the battery and where it is terminated on the back of the engine for any heating.
Or you have just bought a another dud battery.

[Steve]

One of the most common causes of battery failure is the lack of proper initialization. :shock:

If a battery is not properly initialized before putting it into service, it may only reach 80% of its rated capacity, with no chance of improving on that. Rather than trying to detail how to properly put a batter into service, I did a quick Google search and found an excelent article that was aimed at the BMW crowd, but all the basics still apply. It mentions differences between wet cell (flooded) and sealed batteries and how to properly care for each of them.

With no further ado, here is the article.


.

[Redman]

I think I 'm screwed!!

I've been playing with this all day off and on and the sense voltage is still 1 to 1.3 volts below the battery voltage while running.

Lee

Hey Muser Lee,

THe scence voltage being below the battery voltage is a problem. THat is what I was suspecting and wanting you to determine. Think of it this way: The R/R is trying to adjust its output in order control what it is measuring (light circuit voltage), right. SO the R/R is having to crank up its output and is raiseing the battery voltage to the 15.5 in order to get the light cuircuit up to the 14 volts that the R/R wants to see on its scence line. So for some reason the voltage at the light circuit doesnt represent the battery voltage, must be a bad connection along the way in between the two.

a few other commments:
- must not be a stock R/R as the stock R/R have the 3 wires from stator and one output wire (red) and a ground wire (b/w). Stock ones dont have a sence wire (least not on the Gs that I am familiar with).
- dont know why the scence wire can not be right to the same place as the output wire.

Need to review your recent comment about the charge dropping to 13v.

[Redman]

I think I 'm screwed!!

Then my brake bulb burned out. Then after I replaced it with a 1157 which is all I have today, the charging voltage dropped from 16 to just under 13 volts. That is too low.

Lee

Hum,
Since you have been overchargging, I wonder if the "just under 13 volts" is just the battery voltage, and now you are not charging at all. I dont see how changing the brake light bulb could have caused that. Humm...
how about that fuse you siad is in the R/R output to the batt+.

-- In general about troubleshooting charging problems: following the "stator paper" procedure is the best advise as it covers most all the various causes of possible problems that could occure. BUt in your case the other day I had a very specific suspecssion that I wanted you to investigate.

I would say that now we are now troubleshooting a differeent problem, and should start over and follow the "stator papers". Or if you want, jump a head and try the test were you measure the AC output of the stators 3 phases.

Nice story about riding with your sons. I have done that some with my son.

[earlfor]

My first suspicion is that you have one field in your stator that has quit working. The three AC fields of the stator produce about 25 amps max DC once rectified. All three fields are rectified to 12v. If the stator were to only produce one amp, it would still be one amp at 12v. If you have a stator field gone bad, you have lost 1/3 of your electrical capacity/output.
I would disconnect the stator from the R/R, and run the bike up to 5k rpm while checking the AC voltage on the stator legs. You should get 80v AC at 5K rpm between any two stator legs (yellow wires) If you number the three yellow stator legs 1,2,3, you want to check between 1,2 then 1,3 then 2,3.
If all are at or around 80V, then you know the problem is the R/R (assuming you have the R/R grounded to the battery terminal and the bike frame.

Earl

Earl I just took my 550 for a 30 min ride. I have a permanent volt meter on the dash. It is charging between 14 and 14.6V while riding. When I turn off the motor it drops to 12.2V. I just went out and checked it again (30 min since motor was turned off) and it is down to 11.9V. I also checked it with an independent multimeter and it agrees with the reading of 11.9V. Even when it is on 12V it will not turn the starter motor over. The battery is only 3 months old but has not had much use as I have been working on the bike. When the starter is pressed all the lights dim out and stay dim. Any ideas please.

PS This is the second battery from this place in 6 months, the previous one bought in June lasted one month.

Regards

Don

[Suzuki_Don]

Thanks Earl. How can I check the amount of amps that are being generated to the rectifier. How do I wire up my multimeter. So are you saying that I am getting the voltage required to charge my battery but not the amps, how many amps do I need. I have no accessories on the bike. Will the battery charge up if I use a battery charger as opposed to getting the alternator to do the job.

I have a Honda R/R on the bike and the sense wire (6th wire) runs through a relay so it cannot leak battery current to ground when the bike is not being used.

I will redo the 80V yellow wire test at my earliest convenience.

Thanks again

Cheers

Don

[Muser3]

Hi V

Redman I am also saying HMM. I tested my stator and get 70V at 5k. I think that is barely acceptable, but I think acceptable nonetheless. I haven't yet checked the R/R but I bet it's good. We had a cold snap and it's about 29 here right now. That's real cold for us Texans (except for those who live up in Amarillo which is right up against the polar icecap)
I couldn't find the exact bulb replacement but I got a 12V 21/7. Now that the first bulb burned out and the charging picture changed, my panel indicator "brake lamp" is staying on. This really pi$$e$ me off because it took me a while to find the right wire to make the battery light go off. The bike had no battery when I got it and the po had put a black wire on the batt. level indicator circuit instead of a red wire. I naturally connected the black wires to the -batt. or to the frame. I'll get into the bucket today and recheck all the connections. What are your thoughts about using the dielectric grease on all the connections? I have used it for a long time but it may be a waste of time?

[Suzuki_Don]

[quote=earlfor;738958]My first suspicion is that you have one field in your stator that has quit working. The three AC fields of the stator produce about 25 amps max DC once rectified. All three fields are rectified to 12v. If the stator were to only produce one amp, it would still be one amp at 12v. If you have a stator field gone bad, you have lost 1/3 of your electrical capacity/output.
I would disconnect the stator from the R/R, and run the bike up to 5k rpm while checking the AC voltage on the stator legs. You should get 80v AC at 5K rpm between any two stator legs (yellow wires) If you number the three yellow stator legs 1,2,3, you want to check between 1,2 then 1,3 then 2,3.
If all are at or around 80V, then you know the problem is the R/R (assuming you have the R/R grounded to the battery terminal and the bike frame.

I have done the Stator Paper tests. The ohm readings between the stator wires are 0.7, 0.9 & 0.8. So seem to be OK. The voltage reading between the same legs at 5000rpm are in excess of 80VAC, between 80 and 100 (all readings identical). I did a Fluke clamp amp test on each stator output wire still connected to the rectifier with the motor running and got 7-8 AMPs at idle on each leg and 10 AMPs with the motor reved up.
How does all this sound. Are the amps sufficient. The reading was taken before the rectifier.
Cheers
Don

[Redman]

Redman I am also saying HMM. I tested my stator and get 70V at 5k.

it's about 29 here right now.

indicator "brake lamp" is staying on.

What are your thoughts about using the dielectric grease on all the connections?

Lee,

Yah, I say that starting over is a good idea, now are troubleshooting why not charging at all. After resovling that, then may get back the the over charging problem.
(yes, I am an old fart that says "problem" rather than "issue".)
I would say to go thru stator paper proceedure right from the start.

29 degrees ... so you are having your 3 days of winter early this year.

Brake lamp light will stay on as long as you dont have a brake light installed.

Dielectric grease a good idea for long term relaibility, but now you are trying to trouble shoot a failure or totally bad connection. After get all the other stuff sorted out to where it is working, then can be concerned about using the dielectric grease.

70vac on stator (I assume with stator dissconected) just tells us the the stator isnt completley fried, doesnt tell you everything. Did you do the ohm check phase to ground?

Tell us what else you are finding.
.