82 GS1100EZ Charging at 15.63 Volts

[earlfor]

The sense wire on a Honda R/R is supposed to be connected to a switched, hot/positive lead such as a tail light. If you normally turn the ignition/lights off when you park the bike, I dont see how they could come back on by themselves. :-)

Earl


[quote=Suzuki_Don;

I have a Honda R/R on the bike and the sense wire (6th wire) runs through a relay so it cannot leak battery current to ground when the bike is not being used.

I will redo the 80V yellow wire test at my earliest convenience.

Thanks again

Cheers

Don[/quote]

[earlfor]

It looks to me like your stator is spot on where it should be. The problem is either the R/R, faulty grounds, poor/corroded connections, or a wiring harness fault.

The charging system must work relative to battery voltage. If you have a Honda R/R with the sense wire connected to the tail light positive lead, the system cannot work properly if the voltage supply to the tail light is different than the voltage at the battery terminals. Knowing now that the stator is working properly, the next thing I would do is check sensor wire (tail light?) voltage and compare that to the battery. If it is different, the next step is to rewire the tailight (if need be) to get the voltage level consistant.

Earl


[quote=Suzuki_Don

I have done the Stator Paper tests. The ohm readings between the stator wires are 0.7, 0.9 & 0.8. So seem to be OK. The voltage reading between the same legs at 5000rpm are in excess of 80VAC, between 80 and 100 (all readings identical). I did a Fluke clamp amp test on each stator output wire still connected to the rectifier with the motor running and got 7-8 AMPs at idle on each leg and 10 AMPs with the motor reved up.
How does all this sound. Are the amps sufficient. The reading was taken before the rectifier.
Cheers
Don[/quote]

[Suzuki_Don]

It looks to me like your stator is spot on where it should be. The problem is either the R/R, faulty grounds, poor/corroded connections, or a wiring harness fault.

The charging system must work relative to battery voltage. If you have a Honda R/R with the sense wire connected to the tail light positive lead, the system cannot work properly if the voltage supply to the tail light is different than the voltage at the battery terminals. Knowing now that the stator is working properly, the next thing I would do is check sensor wire (tail light?) voltage and compare that to the battery. If it is different, the next step is to rewire the tailight (if need be) to get the voltage level consistant.

Earl

I have the sensor wire connected to the positive at the stop light switch, but run through a relay to prevent current loss when the bike is not being used. The difference in the battery voltage and the stop light wire is 0.6VDC. Is this near enough or do I need to rerun this wire back through the ignition switch to pick up more voltage from the battery.

Cheers
Don

[earlfor]

You have the sensor wire connected to the stop light? I must not be understanding correctly because the stop light circuit is only active when you are using the brakes. This would mean your sensor is not connected to anything unless you are braking and completing the circuit.

In any event, a 0.6v (6/10ths) difference is not acceptable. This would place you in the situation of having a fully charged battery showing 13v and a sensor reading of 12.4 which would tell your charging system the battery was less than half charged when it is already in an overcharging condition.

There is no reason (that I know of) to put a relay between the sensor wire and the R/R. Current will only flow in one direction through the R/R. It cant drain the battery unless its internally shorted and in that event, it would not be working anyhow. I would direct wire the sensor to an always on when the ignition switch is on pickup point. (making certain beforehand that the voltage is same as battery)

Earl

I have the sensor wire connected to the positive at the stop light switch, but run through a relay to prevent current loss when the bike is not being used. The difference in the battery voltage and the stop light wire is 0.6VDC. Is this near enough or do I need to rerun this wire back through the ignition switch to pick up more voltage from the battery.

Cheers
Don

[chef1366]

If he wired it like I did it goes into the switch prior to the switch. I agree with the loss of volts. Must be a bad connection somewhere or a bad wire.

[Suzuki_Don]

You have the sensor wire connected to the stop light? I must not be understanding correctly because the stop light circuit is only active when you are using the brakes. This would mean your sensor is not connected to anything unless you are braking and completing the circuit.

In any event, a 0.6v (6/10ths) difference is not acceptable. This would place you in the situation of having a fully charged battery showing 13v and a sensor reading of 12.4 which would tell your charging system the battery was less than half charged when it is already in an overcharging condition.

There is no reason (that I know of) to put a relay between the sensor wire and the R/R. Current will only flow in one direction through the R/R. It cant drain the battery unless its internally shorted and in that event, it would not be working anyhow. I would direct wire the sensor to an always on when the ignition switch is on pickup point. (making certain beforehand that the voltage is same as battery)

Earl

Earl I have the sensor wire going to the positive connection on the ignition side of the brake light switch. It has power to it whenever the ignition is on.

Don

[Matchless]

The sense voltage point using the Honda Regulator is important and should really be the actual voltage at the battery, but the honda R/R has been found to the leaky and does drain a small amount of juice from the battery if the bike stands for a long time.
The solution then was to connect the sense lead to the orange wire at the rear brake switch as this one is only live when the ignition is on, but feeds via the ignition switch. Any thin wire running from the battery through the ignition switch and back to the battery area will have some sort of voltage drop due to the distance, but higher if there is any bad connection anywhere. Some people added a relay that only operates once the bike is switched on and the coil of the relay is wired to negative earth and to positive orange at the brake line. They then wire the sensing wire to one side of a "normally open" contact of the relay and the other side directly to the battery positive pole to give the shortest possible wire with the least voltage drop across it for the sense lead. This is what yours seems like or should be.

Another and seldomly noticed issue is the manufacturing tolerances, for example the zener diode in the regulator has a manufacturing tolerance percentage and if it is supposed to work at 10 volt and has a tolerance of 1% then it could have an actual operating voltage of anything between 10.1V and 0.9V if the tolerance is 5% then it could be between 9.5V to 10.5V. Exact value components are carefully selected and is plausible that a regulator could slip through that does not sense at exactly the theoretical voltage due to the component values being at the wrong extreme of the allowable tolerance. So it is possible that you have a regulator that charges a bit higher than others where another may charge at a more correct voltage.

Hope this helps.

[Suzuki_Don]

Thanks guys for all your replies. I have traced the voltage drop back to the ignition switch. Going across the red (voltage in) and orange (voltage out) looking into the ignition switch at the connector in the headlight bucket I am seeing 1.5 ohms. I reckon it should be zero. Would this resistance be enough to cause a voltage drop of 0.6VDC. When I test the same two wires going back into the wiring harness towards the brake light switch the reading that I get is only 0.1VDC less that the voltage that I read at the battery.

Your thoughts please. A special thanks to Earl and Mark for their help. BUT I DONT WANT TO CHANGE MY IGNITION SWITCH. I want the one key to fit everything on the bike.

Cheers
Don

[hp1000s]

Kinda' sounds like matchless has given you a way to fix your sensor-wire voltage-drop problem, by using a correctly-wired relay, sensing actual battery voltage at the red/+ battery terminal. I'm getting to the electrical portion of my project now, so I'm trying to soak-up all the 12V knowledge I can!

[Suzuki_Don]

Kinda' sounds like matchless has given you a way to fix your sensor-wire voltage-drop problem, by using a correctly-wired relay, sensing actual battery voltage at the red/+ battery terminal. I'm getting to the electrical portion of my project now, so I'm trying to soak-up all the 12V knowledge I can!

I already have the relay in place. I thought I explined that earlier. The problem is the red and orange wires in the actual ignition switch. There is a high resistance there causing the voltage drop. It looks like I need to replace it with something else.

Cheers
Don

[Muser3]

Hi V

Well it is back to overcharging. I think I'll just use the battery voltage as the sense and run the bike a while with a voltmeter attached and see what I get. I took the day off yesterday and enjoyed a nice long ride on the BMWR11RS. A totally different kind of ride. Lots of low end torque and high speed but a bit more vibration and a great suspension system. I did go after the harness with my dreml drill cleaning out the inside of the bullet connectors and then using crocus cloth on the male bullets. Greased them and reassembled. I also applied the grease to all the molded connectors and thet all went well. I had a couple of repairs to the harness to do so tha tis now done. I have replaced the tail bulb and the indicator light is still on, Something in the "little black box" is probably melted due to the high charging voltage which exceeded 16 volts. I have not checked voltages since the cleanup of the connections.
About winter, it was a bit early this year but it's good to have it over. I have a relay on hand in case it needs to be added to the R/R circuit. Thanks for your suggestions and help. I'll keep you posted. This whole thing might have been a lot less complicated had the rodents not been so fond of the insulation on the harness.
Lee

[Muser3]

Hi V

I think I will wire in a relay as follows: The pos. relay coil will be in the brake light circuit prior to the stop lamp. Its negative lead will be grounded. The relay will switch and the sense wire to the positive battery terminal. This should eliminate any leakage or low level drain problems with the R/R. Sound OK?
Thanks,
Lee

[Suzuki_Don]

I think I will wire in a relay as follows: The pos. relay coil will be in the brake light circuit prior to the stop lamp. Its negative lead will be grounded. The relay will switch and the sense wire to the positive battery terminal. This should eliminate any leakage or low level drain problems with the R/R. Sound OK?
Thanks,
Lee

The following quote was made by Martin Bakalorz in 10/07 in relation to wiring in a relay to the sense wire.

"The sense lead MUST be connected somewhere in the system. If not, the R/R can't tell what voltage the battery is getting. It would then either never charge, or overcharge (probably overcharge, but it depends on the system)
The relay does not handle much power, so the current rating on it does not matter. It does have to be rated for a coil voltage of 12 volts though.
The relay I describe below has 4 terminals: 2 coil terminals, and a normally open pair of contacts.
Some relays have 5 terminals: 2 coil terminals, common, a normally open contact, and a normally closed contact. For that type, you would ignore (leave disconnected) the normally closed contact, and use the other 4
Get the relay and touch every pair of points with an ohmeter, one pair will have a reading of somewhere between 10 and 10,000 ohms (probably around 200-400). This pair is the coil.
Connect either coil terminal to ground. Connect the other coil terminal to any point in the wiring harness that is switched on by the ignition switch, and is always on when the switch is on.
The other two terminals on the relay will now make contact any time the ignition switch is turned on.
Get an inline fuse and a ring terminal. The fuse handles less than an amp, so any value fuse from 1 to 10 amps is fine. The ring terminal goes directly on the battery positive terminal, and then is connected directly to the fuse. Make sure that all the wiring between the ring terminal and fuse is VERY well insulated, and protected from chafing or cutting. If this wire contacts anything it shouldn't, the bike will catch fire ...
The other end of the fuse goes to one of the remaining connections on the relay. The sense lead goes dircectly to the last connection on the relay.
Don't connect anything else to the line from the battery to the relay, or the relay to the sense lead. The whole point is to have the sense lead have a "pure" connection to the battery."

Cheers
Don

[Muser3]

Hi V

Ok, the relay is installed and I am happy to report that all is well. I did not ride tonite when I finished but at 4k the voltmeter shows 14.34 volts. I will take it out tomorrow for a ride and see what it really looks like on the road.
Thanks to all of you who offered help and suggestions, the job was not a burden. When so many people are helping it's more of an adventure than a chore. Thanks again,
Lee

[Redman]

Lee,
Congratulations.
Yah, now that I think of it, and see other folks comments, yup, there IS a reason to NOT connect the scence line directly to battery +.
Sound like you understand that all now.
Dave