850 clutch - can't get 1st when cold

[Goose]

OK, I've searched and all I seem to find is slipping problems which I DON'T have. And I can't really test much right now because the snow is falling, but here's what I've done to date.

I put in fresh oil. Castrol 10W40 is what I'm using. I've mic'd my clutch springs and they're all well within tolerances. The PO had put in a new clutch basket, so I didn't check thickness of each plate, but maybe I ought to?

When the bike is cold, getting into 1st is darn near impossible. When it does drop into first, the bike lurches and stalls. I've tried every possible adjustment in the clutch, from one extreme to the other, but nothing changes this issue of getting into first. I have a Clymer and a shop manual.

I let it warm up for about 15 minutes, and finally got it into first without stalling. Then I couldn't get it into neutral without shutting off the bike first!

I got it into first again, and decided to see what would happen when I went down the road and shifted while moving. That seemed to work pretty good, and after awhile, shifting worked pretty much flawlessly. Stopping, starting, shifting into first and out, even shut the bike down in neutral and started it back up to see if that changed anything. At that point I figured that the fresh oil just needed to work into everything and that getting the bike good and hot helped set things right. Went back home and put the bike up, but next day I had the same problems with shifting into first.

WTH? Could there be too many plates in the clutch basket? Or is there some simple solution that I'm overlooking?

[TheCafeKid]

Cold as it is here, cold oil will cause the clutch to bind. getting it moving seems to be the way to warm it up best. May not be the exact problem, but im sure its part of it.

[Dave8338]

Sounds like you've covered the bases quite well. I have read a thread similar to yours about not going into first, though can't remember where or when. What I would suggest is taking a close look at the clutch fork and the shift shaft that goes through the crankcase, I believe it enters at the right. If either are worn or bent...you'll see the problems that you qre describing. Hope this helps.

[Goose]

What I would suggest is taking a close look at the clutch fork and the shift shaft that goes through the crankcase, I believe it enters at the right. If either are worn or bent...you'll see the problems that you qre describing. Hope this helps.

I'll have to investigate. Just can't understand why it's so hard to shift until the bike is really warmed up...

[SkeletonLake]

Have experienced the same before, the clutch cable itself was not staying in place and allowing the cable to flex/arc. Use your Clymer for the correct cable routing, the bracket on my bike was missing. I used a hose clamp on the left frame tube below the steering head; just tight enough to hold it in place but loose enough to allow the cable to slide inside the cover. End of problem.

[49er]

Hi Goose
The '79 850's are renowned for clutch drag when the engine is cold. Suzuki fixed the problem by reducing the oil flow into the clutch assy. They modified the clutch release rack (#18 in the Clymer manuel, page 99) by reducing the hole size through the centre from 5mm to 1.2mm. There was a replacement rack produced #23165-45101 but this is no longer available from Suzuki. I modified mine by machining up a reducer and pressing it into the stock rack. I then bored it to 1.5mm a little bigger than Suzuki did. I was alerted to this mod by GSR member Tomcat24551. He had a Suzuki service bulletin detailing the mod. In later models, Suzuki also modified the oil feed passage on the clutch housing by fitting a reducer(oil jet) where the housing mates to the crankcase. They did this to prevent over pressurising the clutch lever shaft seal in the same area. I did that mod to my clutch as well.
While I had my clutch apart, I filed some wear marks left on the sleeve hub (#5 Clymer) and the primary driven gear (#1Clymer). These were small lumps left on the aluminium guides where the steel pressure plates slide during clutch actuation. I found that these lumps were impeding the clutch plates from moving freely and making the gear changes feel very notchey.
The last mod I did was to drill some extra holes in the rear of the sleeve hub and the front pressure disc. I figured that the '79 clutch design wasn't allowing the oil to flow out of the basket assy quickly enough.
I couldn't believe the difference these mods made. It's like having a new clutch. My 850's clutch is now nearly as smooth as the 1150's.
If you decide to attempt these mods, PM me for copies of the drawings.
If you don't have a manuel, I recommend that you buy the Clymer Suzuki 850-1100 Shaft Drive . 1979-1984 manual.

[Goose]

Hi Goose
The '79 850's are renowned for clutch drag when the engine is cold. Suzuki fixed the problem by reducing the oil flow into the clutch assy. They modified the clutch release rack (#18 in the Clymer manuel, page 99) by reducing the hole size through the centre from 5mm to 1.2mm. There was a replacement rack produced #23165-45101 but this is no longer available from Suzuki. I modified mine by machining up a reducer and pressing it into the stock rack. I then bored it to 1.5mm a little bigger than Suzuki did. I was alerted to this mod by GSR member Tomcat24551. He had a Suzuki service bulletin detailing the mod. In later models, Suzuki also modified the oil feed passage on the clutch housing by fitting a reducer(oil jet) where the housing mates to the crankcase. They did this to prevent over pressurising the clutch lever shaft seal in the same area. I did that mod to my clutch as well.
While I had my clutch apart, I filed some wear marks left on the sleeve hub (#5 Clymer) and the primary driven gear (#1Clymer). These were small lumps left on the aluminium guides where the steel pressure plates slide during clutch actuation. I found that these lumps were impeding the clutch plates from moving freely and making the gear changes feel very notchey.
The last mod I did was to drill some extra holes in the rear of the sleeve hub and the front pressure disc. I figured that the '79 clutch design wasn't allowing the oil to flow out of the basket assy quickly enough.
I couldn't believe the difference these mods made. It's like having a new clutch. My 850's clutch is now nearly as smooth as the 1150's.
If you decide to attempt these mods, PM me for copies of the drawings.
If you don't have a manuel, I recommend that you buy the Clymer Suzuki 850-1100 Shaft Drive . 1979-1984 manual.

Wow. That's some stuff I could never have guessed in a million years! I do have the Clymer and will PM you RIGHT NOW.

Thanks a bunch!

[Philly_Chris]

While I am not an expert on the particulars of the 79 incarnation (my 850 is an 82), your symptoms sound like they could be caused by having your idle set too high (or high rpms due to choke). Something simple to rule out first.

[49er]

While I am not an expert on the particulars of the 79 incarnation (my 850 is an 82), your symptoms sound like they could be caused by having your idle set too high (or high rpms due to choke). Something simple to rule out first.

Yes, higher than recommended idle speeds do futher increase clutch drag symptoms. But this problem was recognised by Suzuki in '79 and they subsequently issued a Service Bulletin with the detailed remedy. It does work!!!

[Goose]

While I am not an expert on the particulars of the 79 incarnation (my 850 is an 82), your symptoms sound like they could be caused by having your idle set too high (or high rpms due to choke). Something simple to rule out first.

I've experienced that (slightly) with my 550, but the 850 idles nicely and I've ruled that one out. Ah if it was only a simple fix... but this girl is proving itself to be more of a difficult beastie.

[tone]

Have you checked that the steel plates are straight & not warped ?
Also check that they are all fitted the correct way round !

[tfb]

For what it's worth, I found that switching to fully synthetic oil from mineral ('dino') fixed the clutch drag problems on my Kat1100.

[49er]

For what it's worth, I found that switching to fully synthetic oil from mineral ('dino') fixed the clutch drag problems on my Kat1100.

When I bouight the 850, the PO was running 20W50 Shell fully synthetic oil to disguise a rather noisy cam knock that the engine had at that time.
I replaced that with 10W40 fully synthetic but the clutch still dragged when the engine was cold, not as severely as with 20W50 but still a PITA.
The factory recognised the problem and did the mods I have mentioned earlier. These mods do work!!

[79-GS550-L]

If it sits too long and the clutch gums up or binds, you may have to break the plates apart. Put it on the centerstand, shift into 1st, and give it some gas while applying the rear brake. Since you've taken the clutch apart and examined it I'm sure that's not the problem you're having right now (sounds like it's that other issue with the oil flow), but the centerstand trick could still come in useful someday. I had to use it on my 550 once, the clutch was binding so badly I couldn't go into first without stalling. Might be a good temporary workaround for you on cold days to warm up the clutch a bit before you get around to doing that mod.