Valve shim adjustment problem

[TheCafeKid]

Yeah..you are right Steve How do i question a Kaw master??? I dunno what i was lookin at before but i swore that it said 29.5 shims for Suzuki and Kaw.

On another note...ALOT of Hondas use no shims, instead have tappet adjusters, like the 16v GS models...

[TheCafeKid]

I now wonder WTF the difference? I know the Zook valves are a bit more generous maybe than the Kaw's but the overall layout of the 2V GS motor is nearly identical to a Z1....Any input on that?

[tconroy]

Steve, I haven't looked at each shim yet. Three were the same & I was hung up trying to get that dang compression tool to do its thing on the inner cylinders. There's enough pressure on the #2 intake that I cannot even rotate the bucket, when I realized that, I decided to step back and take a breath.

I won't get time on this again until Monday, but I will go down to my local YamaKawaZuki dealer tomorrow and buy a few shims. Hopefully they have some.

Do you have the spark plugs out?????You should be able to turn it over with no problem with the spark plugs out.When you use the tool start with the handle straight up and put it under the cam then slowly rotate it down.Dont try to force it,let the tool work for you.

[82Shafty]

Did you grind the valves or cut the seats?

By doing so you increase the stem height.

I just did all of my shims last night and am thinking on buying a 245mm one to bring the only .0015" I have into the .003" range... I figure if I set them on the big end of the scale she should easily go another 15G on the clock before having to recheck them.

I was fortunate on my bike, I had a few spare shims left over from my dad's and my bike had a wider varity to work with.

[BassCliff]

Jus' tryin' ta help a little

Mr. dardoonk,

I documented one of my valve clearance checks on my 850. It's a pictorial guide that might offer some insight. Click the link to my little BikeCliff website in my sig below or download the PDF file by clicking here.

Like the others have said, it's easier to use the proper size metric feeler gauges and pull out the plugs so the motor is easy to turn. Make sure your cam lobes are in the proper positions when you check the clearances between the bottom of the lobe and the top of the shim. Basically, when checking #1 and #2 exhaust, position the #1 exhaust lobe pointing forward and measure #1 and #2. When checking exhaust #3 and #4, put #4 exhaust lobe pointing forward and measure #3 and #4. When checking intake #1 and #2, point the #1 intake lobe up and measure #1 and #2. When checking intake #3 and #4, point #4 intake lobe up and measure #3 and #4 intakes. Hopefully the pictures in my guide will make it easy to visualize. Let us know if you have more questions.

I apologize if this is a profound glimpse into the obvious. I'm just trying to be clear. Valve clearances are more important than some people think.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[Roostabunny]

If they don't have the Suzuki shims, don't let him talk you into using Kawasaki or Yamaha shims. :shock:

Suzuki shims are 29.5 mm in diameter, Kawasaki and Yamaha shims are only 29.0 mm. Might be the same thickness, but are not as wide.
I don't know about Honda shims, as I have never adjusted a Honda with shims.


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OK, so my motorcycle mechanic friend who works on Kawasaki police bikes is actually going to be hooking me up with 29.0 mm shims? :shock: I told him mine were 29.5mm - you think he just doesn't know because most of his experience is with Kawasakis, Yamahas, and Hondas?

I mean, I believe you, but I guess I'll just bring my digital caliper when I see him tomorrow. Drat - my masterful plan to fix my airbox issues and adjust my valves and replace my fuel petcock without losing a days commute just fell apart cause I have no local source for two out of the four sizes I need.

Any GSr's in Phoenix, AZ have a 2.55mm and a 2.50X (two 2.55's would be OK) hanging around that I can pick up on Monday and bring my plan back to life?

BTW, Steve, I'm using your spreadsheet. Awesome! Very helpful - especially for a first-timer. I'm no Excel expert, but I wonder if there's a way for the thing to produce a shopping list. You know - this one needs a 2.50, but you're taking a 2.50 out of another valve that needs a 2.45, so that one's not on the shopping list... just an idea I had after figuring that out manually.

[Steve]

... but I wonder if there's a way for the thing to produce a shopping list. You know - this one needs a 2.50, but you're taking a 2.50 out of another valve that needs a 2.45, so that one's not on the shopping list... just an idea I had after figuring that out manually.

I thought about that, but it's only a problem the first time you do it. After that, your shim changes will be minimal, so the shuffling part is much easier.

One thing I have found that helps is to print out the sheet for use at the bike. You can scribble in the appropriate values, then go back to your computer, enter your measurements and let it do the math for you. Once you have all your measurements and suggestions for 'proper' shim size, it's not that hard to look at the paper to see what you can move around.


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[dardoonk]

BassCliff, Thank you. I had already downloaded you proceedure and it has been helpful. I'm comfortable with the proceedure itself, but I kinda got knocked off track when I realized I had all 8 valves with zero or less clearance.

Steve, Cafe, Nessism, tconroy & everyone else - thanks for the pointers. Everyone's advice is helpful to me. It is obvious I need to locate a measuring device that goes smaller than what I have. That's my next step.

I couldn't get to the bike today, but did manage to get another dozen Suzuki shims. I stopped over & talked to my Pastor Suzuki today. He had a box full of shims and everything else I would ever need short of an extra set of feeler gauges. lol.... The range in size from 2.35 to 2.60, so with nearly 40 shims, I think I can approach this with confidence.

He has dispensed a wealth of knowledge during my time working on this bike, and helped clarify some of your suggestions to me. As well, I think he enjoys taking a few minutes to give me pointers. Kinda one of the old time racer types that enjoys passing on his knowledge. Sure am glad he lives close!

[Steve]

It is obvious I need to locate a measuring device that goes smaller than what I have. That's my next step.

I don't think you will find anything smaller than your current smallest feeler. Keep in mind that is only 1/3 the thickness of a sheet of paper. :shock:

I think my thinnest feeler is 0.0015 and it bends too easily, I can't imagine going thinner and even more fragile. Having the 0.0012 feeler is actually rather nice. Since that is the smallest that your valve clearance should be, you can be assured that if that feeler won't go in, you will need to change the shim. Unfortunately, you will not know how many sizes to change. The difference in the shim sizes is about 0.002, which is greater than the thickness of the feeler gauge. Unless your valves are being held open, one shim size difference should be enough to bring it back into range. If the valves are being held open, hope they have not gotten burned, and two shim sizes might get it back into range.

Let us know what you find.


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[Roostabunny]

By the way, one good tip I got was to use the tappet tool to make extra space for the really thin gauges. Then remove the tappet tool and pull out the gauge and judge the resistance that way. If it doesn't move, it's too big - use the tappet tool again to release it and try the next size down.

Getting an .0015 or the .002 into the space (even when it fits) is sometimes like trying to get a crumpled dollar into a Coke machine. This tip saved me some time.

[tconroy]

By the way, one good tip I got was to use the tappet tool to make extra space for the really thin gauges. Then remove the tappet tool and pull out the gauge and judge the resistance that way. If it doesn't move, it's too big - use the tappet tool again to release it and try the next size down.

Getting an .0015 or the .002 into the space (even when it fits) is sometimes like trying to get a crumpled dollar into a Coke machine. This tip saved me some time.

Are you talking inches???? My smallest one is 0.03mm which is thin as a hair! or 0.001inches!

[Steve]

Are you talking inches???? My smallest one is 0.03mm which is thin as a hair! or 0.001inches!

Yes, we are talking inches here. If you do the math, 0.03 mm translates to 0.00118110236 inches, or, rounded off, 0.0012". 8-[


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[tconroy]

[QUOTE=Steve;743672]Yes, we are talking inches here. If you do the math, 0.03 mm translates to 0.00118110236 inches, or, rounded off, 0.0012". 8-[
Mine are set at 0.03mm to 0.08mm for clearance on the 650. I go by mm cause it makes it easier to use for me.That's the way my bikemaster feeler gauge is marked. I work with mm all day and inches confuses me anymore.I work on german made machinery so i dont ever use SAE measurements anymore The guy that helped me do my adjustment used inches but did it in the mm measurement and i had to do it all over again.Instead of (example) 0.03mm he set them at 0.0003 inches which is way to big.0.0003 inches is about 0.08mm. which is the high side for my clearance, that's why I asked.

[Roostabunny]

[quote=tconroy;743677]

Yes, we are talking inches here. If you do the math, 0.03 mm translates to 0.00118110236 inches, or, rounded off, 0.0012". 8-[
Mine are set at 0.03mm to 0.08mm for clearance on the 650. I go by mm cause it makes it easier to use for me.That's the way my bikemaster feeler gauge is marked. I work with mm all day and inches confuses me anymore.I work on german made machinery so i dont ever use SAE measurements anymore

Yeah - that would make it a little easier. I'll probably get a set like that eventually. But for now my SAE ones work, especially with the help of Steve's spreadsheet to do the conversion to Metric for me.

Guess it would have helped to clarify units on that post. This thread has been a little confusing that way - sorry to add to it.

[tconroy]

[QUOTE=Roostabunny;743682]

Yeah - that would make it a little easier. I'll probably get a set like that eventually. But for now my SAE ones work, especially with the help of Steve's spreadsheet to do the conversion to Metric for me.

Guess it would have helped to clarify units on that post. This thread has been a little confusing that way - sorry to add to it.

As long as you go by the book for what the clearance is it's fine to use whatever you want.Just dont get them mixed up like my buddy did!!