1983 GS1100E Heavy Duty Clutch ???

[posplayr]

Ok,
I pulled my clutch out today because there are some E-bay clutches going off soon and it looks like I lucked out. Does any body know what kind of clutch this is? I think the backing plate is approaching 5 mm (v.s. 2.5 stock ??). It seems to clearly be after market. Every other spring is also shimmed.

Update, in looking at the APE website, it looks like I have the the "Gorilla" clutch hub assembly. In looking at the plate/spring kit, the rough machined spring openings look just like mine, also the same green springs.





The outer diamer of the basket has been machined down, not sure if it is balanced though.


The inner carrier is a little ragged , but it does appear as if it was also drilled which I have read here is another mod to improve oil flow out of the clutch???




See part two to follow

[posplayr]

Heavy Duty Clutch Part II

It looks like there might have been a little damage at one point but noting bad. See scratches at the edge of the oil pump gear.



I miced one of the friction plates and it was within full tolerance. The PO said he had changed the plates , and there was a new gasket on the clutch cover. The clutch springs are also within service limits as well.



Generally the clutch looks pretty clean except for the wear on the inner hub teeth/guides. I understand that this can cause some catching in the clutch when shifting.

I only rode the bike 150 miles before pullling apart, but the clutch did not seem to slip but it did take the entire travel to engage. I did some adjustment but it did not seem to help much. The clutch was not stiff at all. The engine did rattle at idle (carbs not balanced) but it did not seem to be from behind??

One last item, I figure when I get this thing back together it will be close to 125 hp, but will be street ridden (190+ PSI suspect a 10.25 1138 bore kit ??, Yosh 4:1, Dana Coils, K&N pods, 36 mm 1150 carbs with Stage III jets, 1150 intake/stock 83 exhaust cams).

So some questions:

1.) Anybody know what kind of clutch basket this is? I dont think I will change it at all. The springs seem real tight and they dont rotate.

2.) The inner basket has a lot of wear; should I file down the teeth or get another and redrill the oil hold to match the old?

3.) The friction plates seem good, I will mike all of the metal plates and check for flatness but otherwise does this look like an OEM set? The only close up I saw on the APE site with the groves seems to be the OEM version. Is this a good choice, for $100 I can buy and put in something that I know (any suggestions)

4.) Clutch Springs, they seem to be OK, but I'm wondering if I should just get a mixed set of HD springs and new OEM's (qty 3) and do the 50-50 mix as other have done here.

5.) Ape clutch Hub Nut??
I'm pretty sure the hub was wabbling a little on the shaft (loose nut ???). There are tappered roller bearing, but I dont think that they are bad. The nut is expensive but if it stops the problem........

SUZUKI HEAVY DUTY CLUTCH HUB NUT

CLUTCH HUB NUT
The factory Suzuki hub nuts are soft, allowing the threads to deform and come loose. This allows the hub assembly to wobble. The APE nuts are CNC machined from heat treated chrome moly steel. End of problem.
SHN1150 Suzuki GS1100 / GS1150 $24.95

Any advice comments welcome.

TIA
Posplayr

[srsupertrap]

It just received my modified GS1000 Clutch Hub from Falicon and your GS1100 Clutch Hub shares the same visual features. The backing plate is completly smooth were it retains (meets) the TV springs and the springs are also colored green.

Based on your photos, I think someone purchased the Falicon GS1100 Clutch Hub Kit and installed it themselves, not to hard if you have the welding equipment. The fact that your Clutch Hub now has additional washers behind the springs tells me it was used for a spell (probably hard), became rattely and someone disassembled it and placed washers behind the springs to quell the clutch rattle.

You can usually identify a balanced clutch hub by drill holes on the backing plate in one area; sort of like balancing a wheel except they remove the weight to equalize the distribution.

The holes that you have shown I am fairly certain are stock since my Clutch Hub shares these same holes. I am no expert on the GS1100 though. The clutch modification you mentioned entails drilling holes through the clutch pressure disc & sleeve hub (Suzuki's description). I have performed this modification with the help of a fellow GSer, iglrant.

You should file the nicks on the teeth as you have described smooth to minimize clutch drag . . . boy you sure ask a lot of mechanical questions for EE.

[posplayr]

SRSuperTrap

Thanks for the response. The flat plate design is probably pretty common as it is relatively easy to make out of flat stock. On the springs, (and not that I dont think some one has rode this babdy hard), I guess I would be surprised if someone disassasembled one of these beasts and added spacers instead of changing $10 worth of springs. I assumed it was to provide a touch more stiffness. As mentioned none of the springs are loose in any way (pushing with fingers). The spacers are alternated every other one.

I filed a bit on the center carrier and while it is possible, it will take a quite some time (my groves are pretty deep) and I dont have a precision file :?,

So at this point I'm looking for a clutch hub, lock washer, and one of those APE nuts. What about friction plates and springs? Any recommendations?

I used to be a gear head in High School, and am finding this foray into Suks really fun.

Posplayr

[srsupertrap]

Regarding the $10 worth of springs have a look at this link that GSer robertob sent me when I was asking similar questions. I found it very interesting and shows how inventive some people are . . .

http://members.optusnet.com.au/fischermk/clutchhub.htm

Your "center carrier" hub is certainly is showing its age and you should either get those precision files or spring for a new one. I believe most people do agree that the wear we see on this component is directly associated with clutch drag. I have the same issue but not as pronounced and I am trying the filing method first since a new OEM one is approximately $200.

Regarding friction plates, I have used the Barnett for decades with no problems. I recently picked up a new set on Fleabay for $60. You may just want to measure your friction plates and reuse them.

The clutch spring selection often brings out lots of opinions for & against.
I have personally used the H/D clutch springs, alternating H/D & stock springs and stock springs alone. Your choice should be determined by how hard you ride your GS1100 because in IMHO even the alternating springs were too stiff for me.

The APE Clutch Hub Nut also brings out all sorts of opinions, I have no experience with it. I asked Schnitz Racing if it was necessary and they told me no?

[80gs1100]

I bought a new inner clutch hub from suzuki and it already had the holes drilled into it. I have also used the hd clutch springs, and let me tell you, getting stuck in traffic is not fun with that set up. I also noticed the transmission wasn't shifting very well, and it was almost impossible to find nuetral. I ended up switching back to a new set of stock suzuki springs and now everything works just fine, with no clutch slip under full throttle.

[posplayr]

Parts on Order

Thanks for the feedback. Since it turns out somebody (PO #2) already invested the equivalent of $300 for the Gorilla Clutch Hub ( basket), and the clutch symptoms (extended engagement) match exactly what has been described, with the inner "center carrier" was well past it's prime , I ordered the following new:

* new OEM Carrier (#5 only $62.05)
* new lock washers (#7)
* 3 new OEM springs (#12 $2.01 each)
* Oil seal (#26)
* rubber cushion (#31)

* APE HD Clutch Hub NUT ($24.95)
* Barnett HD Clucth Springs only

[Edit] Talked to RapidRay and said to NOT get the Barnett Clutch so I just got the HD springs from APE but those are Barnett; The order I did make was backordered afterall so no harm or foul.

I'll try the 50:50 mix of OEM to HD springs as suggested here to start out. I need to work on my grip (for Windsurfing/Kitingboarding) but if it is too much I can always go back to full stock springs.

With a new cable this should give me close to a new HD clutch. The only other thing I have contemplated is the needle bearing but after inspection (had oil on it but other than that looked perfect), it did not seem worth the extra expense.

Thanks for all comments.
BTW, I'll be using Mobil 1 syntetic and will let you knwo when it is back together how it works (it will be a few weeks as the bike is still coming apart vs. going together)
Posplayr

[rphillips]

To prevent serious clutch problems, install a beefed up clutch hub, like the one you have luckily found you already have. Check to see if your clutch is slipping, by runing your bike wide open in 5th gear. I know this is illegal, but it's the surest way to find out if your clutch is slipping. If it is going to slip, you should hear the engine speed rise as the bike speed doesn't, normally between 6k & 8k rpm. the most common cause of slippage is the springs. There are 6 springs, a new set of o.e.m. will usually fix the problem, but if needed, you can install 2, 3, 4, or 6 heavy duty springs as needed, spaced to keep the tension balanced around the pressure plate. The fiber plates can wear, but usually they don't, like the Energizer Bunny or brakes on a John Deere tractor, that also run in oil, they keep going & going, & going. They sometimes crack or break a small section of the fiber out. You probably won't know it, till you take the plates out & inspect them. I wouldn't recommend filing the rails. On both the inner & outer hubs, the rails are spaced exactly the same distance apart, if you don't file the exact same amount from each rail, each rail won't be carring its share of the load. Simply, if you took .010" from half of the rails & .005" from the other half, the rails you took .05 from would be carrying all the load, the other half would be .005" away from even contacting the teeth they should mate with on the plates. The heavy duty nut is personal preference, it surely won't hurt a thing. I've personally not had trouble with o.e.m., but if I did, I would surely have a heavy duty. As always, just my opinion.

[rphillips]

Oh yea, find a way to mark your old or new springs. Space them equally around the 6 positions, this will keep the pressure balanced all the way around the plates. Don't want more pressure on one side of the plates than the other.

[Mysuzyq]

I'll try the 50:50 mix of OEM to HD springs as suggested here to start out. I need to work on my grip (for Windsurfing/Kitingboarding) but if it is too much I can always go back to full stock springs.

With a new cable this should give me close to a new HD clutch. ..

Go with an OEM Suzuki cable, if possible....the Motion Pro items do not last as long, by all accounts....esp with the HD springs.
Tony.

[posplayr]

Clutch Update I think I found the knock

As I mentioned before my clutch basket rocked a little (0.040" at the edge of the basket) before I removed it and after I installed it back. Tonite I pulled it apart again to figure out what was loose. I discovered that there is a mystery thrust washer in addition to the grooved thrust washer shown in the manuals and the mirofice.

The PO had put this additional washer underneth the grooved washer (into the recess of the clutch basket hub/boss covering the (bearing). Basically it is just floating. I guess the PO did the best he could. The part is not shown of the manual he had (up to 1982 only; I just bought a 1983 manual today and will check it). So guess what with the washer below the groved washer the basket wobbles. I then swapped the spacer (thrust washer) with the grooved washer and now the washer takes up slack and when I tightened the new APE hub nut the clutch was rock solid \\/.

I think this looseness was causing the noise that I was really questioning the PO about before I bought it. I'm pretty sure he put heavy (60W ) oil into the motor because he figured it was a rod knock and he was masking it to sell the bike. He should be glad I rescued it from him (famous last words). He was going to do more damage if he kept it any longer (he killed the the gear on the exhaust cam as well).



So the question is, Do I have this right? Is this an after market washer or is it stock on the 1983? It seems to be required but not in the manual.

Mystery #2 which I solved is that when I removed the oil pump for a check, the pump was pretty hard to get apart.



I came close to warping it in fact. Then I found this little screw holding the cover on but hiding in the back . Something to watch out for.



Any way I did not do any significant damage to the pump, and the pump did check out (so for 50K miles it must have also been change) as far as clearance. However there is some clear evidence that some of the cams gear bits from the Tach drive went through the pump. I've just about resigned myself to getting a new one. No need to have this in the back of my mind for the next 10 years.

Still waiting for the inner hub and some other parts from Flatout cycle ordered the 7th of FEb.

BTW I have all new OEM cables ready to install when it is time (clutch,throttle,chock,tach,speedo).


Posplayr

[posplayr]

Rapid Ray gave me the answer

The mystery washer is the first item in the exploded view and it goes behind the pump gear.

I got a notice that flat out set my order. New OEM inner Hub for $61.05
Best Price.

Posplayr

[Big Jay]

You should have also used our extra plate clutch kit. You would have loved it.

http://gszone.biz/clutches.html

Jay