Hard/cold starting- 81 750L

[Splittie]

After searching the forums, I THOUGHT that I had found the solution to my problem, but now I am not sure.
I have an 81 750L that wont start cold unless I spray starting fluid into the carbs and crank it until the battery almost dies.
I had read that the problem sounds like the valves need adjusting, but now I was told that the fuel pickup may be plugged or not working.
The bike runs fine once started and will fire up after shutting it off, but if I let it set too long I'm right back to using starting fluid.
I want/NEED to get this bike running so I can ride to work, but don't want to take it in to a shop and pay them for work that doesn't need to be done!
Thanks for any help.[-o<

[trippivot]

hard cold start can be both simple or complicated.

#1 adjust the cam chain tensioner
#2 take a compression test wet and dry
#3 tight valves?
#4 1 carb or all 4 need inspected for fuel height and enrichner circiut operation.
#5 timed ignition --points or electronic setting adjustments?

all starting/running problems boil down to 1)timed ignition 2)compression and 3)proper fuel mixture

thats it... simple or complicated

[trippivot]

load test the battery . to verify the voltage while cranking.

if it dips below 10 dcv there will be no spark until you let off of the button and it tries to fire right at the end of the cranking attempt.

just another idea.

[Splittie]

So there is really no way of doing anything (i.e cleaning carbs etc) that is a simple fix?
I guess I need to pick up a shop manual or take it in to be worked on.

[Steve]

First thing to do is PUT THE STARTING FLUID BACK ON THE SHELF :shock:
It is far too easy to get carried away while spraying that stuff, usually with unpleasant results.

Next, call your favorite shop to see if they will even work on the bike. Many shops are adopting a rule of not working on bikes over 10 years old. Seems that too many bolts are breaking on older bikes, which really destroys any profitability due to the extra time necessary to remove the broken bolts.

If they will work on your bike, ask them how much for a valve adjustment. When you recover from the shock, order a valve cover gasket instead, and do the job yourself. If you are slow, it takes a couple of hours. If you have to order new shims (and, due to your starting problems, you probably will) you will have to order some new ones unless your shop is willing to exchange for you. Some shops will trade sizes for a couple of bucks, so ask them. New ones are available from Z1 for about $5 or from Suzuki for about $11.

If you end up doing the job yourself, I can send you a copy of my Valve Adjustment Spreadsheet which will help you with the math converting inch to metric measurement and also to help keep track of your shim inventory for future adjustments.

Actually, most of the stuff involved with working on our bikes can be termed 'simple'. Some of it just takes longer than others.

Simple diagnostic skills will tell you that if the bike runs when warmed up, it's not going to be a problem with fuel pickup, as that would affect operation when warm or cold. Depending on how the bike has been ridden or stored, your carbs might or might not need cleaning. If the bike has never been stored for an extended time, it is not likely to have deposits gumming up the carbs. Running a few tanks of gas with Seafoam addeed might clean them acceptably. In any event, once you have the valves adjusted, it would be in your best interest to sync the carbs and fine-tune the idle mixture screws.

.

[hardwareman]

hard starting

i am sorry but i also have a 1980 gs1000e that refuses to start if let sitting.if it was a valve adjustment problem it should have cleared up after the adjustment and though carb rebuild done by a professional shouldn't it?if i start it every day or two it starts right up.let it sit for a week and it will not!it is low milage 16000 miles and runs great after startup.i have thought that the fuel valve has been the problem all along.

[Steve]

... carb rebuild done by a professional shouldn't it?

Let me offer a clue here. Look up 'professional' in your dictionary. Does it say "someone who is good at what he does"?
Mine doesn't. It says, in definition 2C, "engaged in by persons receiving financial return ". :shock:

If your bike starts easily from one day to the next, it shows that it is starting well when cold. However, if it does not start easily when it has not been started for about a week, try turning the petcock to the PRIME position for 30 seconds or so before trying to start the bike. Don't forget to move the petcock back to the RUN position before riding.


.

[BassCliff]

You can do it!

Mr. Splittie,

To get an easy starting bike is pretty simple, really. All you have to do is make sure the carbs are clean, the valves are adjusted, and the electrical system is in good working order.

A year ago I bought a motorcycle that was in really good running condition, but as I rode it, it got harder to start. Here is what I've done to ensure it starts with the "touch of a button":

1. A few tanks with Sea Foam
2. Replaced all fluids
3. Adjusted the valves
4. Replaced spark plugs
5. Replaced air filter (K/N)
6. Sealed airbox/air intake system
7. Replaced the regulator/rectifier
8. Replaced the stator
9. Cleaned/replaced all questionable electrical connectors
10. Replaced battery with an AGM (maintenance-free) unit

Now it starts with literally a "touch of the button". It's taken some time. I've documented most of it on my little BikeCliff website. I am not very mechanically inclined so if I can do it, anyone can.

Don't get discouraged. There are no "magic screwdrivers". Just roll up your sleeves and do it right, yourself. I've heard and read way too many horror stories about shop mechanics working on these classic bikes and doing more harm than good. I had one guy tell me that "Ta clean them carbs ya jus' take off them float bowls and squirt some carb cleaner on them jets. That's all they need."

I'm not really looking forward to tearing into my carbs, but that will be a task I undertake in the near future. It will be fun! (I hope.)

Please keep us informed of your progress. There's lots of good advice available here.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[BassCliff]

Hey howdy hey!

i am sorry but i also have a 1980 gs1000e that refuses to start if let sitting.if it was a valve adjustment problem it should have cleared up after the adjustment and though carb rebuild done by a professional shouldn't it?if i start it every day or two it starts right up.let it sit for a week and it will not!it is low milage 16000 miles and runs great after startup.i have thought that the fuel valve has been the problem all along.

Mr. hardwareman,

I noticed that was your first post. So in keeping with proper tradition...

Let it be known that on this day you are cordially and formally welcomed to the GSR Forum as a Junior Member in good standing with all the rights and privileges thereof. Further let it be known that your good standing can be improved with pictures (not you, your bike)! :grin:

Perhaps you've already seen these, but I like to remind all the new members. In addition to the carb rebuild series, I recommend visiting the garage section via the GSR Hompage and check out the Stator Papers. There's also a lot of great information in the Old Q&A section. I have some documentation on my little BikeCliff website to help get you familiar with doing routine maintenance tasks (note that it is 850G-specific but many tasks are common to all GS bikes). Other "user contributed" informational sites include those of Mr. bwringer, Mr. tfb and Mr. robertbarr.

And here are some more gems of wisdom from one our dear beloved gurus (whom I see you've already met), Mr. bwringer, with ideas on basic maintenance needs (depending on initial condition), parts, and accessories.

***********Quoted from Mr. bwringer************
Carburetor maintenance:

Replace the intake boot o-rings, and possibly the intake boots. Here's the procedure:
http://bwringer.com/gs/intakeorings.html

Here's an overview of what happens with this particular problem:
http://cycleorings.com/intake.html

You'll also want to examine the boots between the carbs and the airbox. There's a good chance these are OK, but check them over.

And finally, if things still aren't exactly right, you'll want to order a set of o-rings for BS carbs from the GS owner's best friend, Robert Barr:
http://cycleorings.com

Once you receive these rare rings of delight, then you'll want to thoroughly clean and rebuild your carburetors. Here are step-by-step instructions that make this simple:
http://thegsresources.com/gs_carbrebuild.htm
*************End Quote*************
**********<quote Mr. bwringer>**********
Every GS850 has (or had) a set of well-known issues that MUST be addressed before you have a solid baseline for further troubleshooting.

It's a vintage bike, and it's quite common (as in, every single GS850 I have had contact with) that there are multiple problems that have crept up and slowly gotten worse over the years.

It's not like a newer vehicle, where there's generally one problem at a time.

These common issues are:

Intake O-rings (install NEW OEM or Viton only - common nitrile o-rings will quickly deteriorate from heat)

Intake Boots (install NEW -- these cannot be repaired)

Valve clearances (more important than most people think)

Carb/airbox boots

Airbox sealing

Air filter sealing

Petcock (install a NEW one)

On '79 models, install new points or Dyna electronic ignition (or at least verify that the old points are working correctly)

On all models, it's fairly common to have problems with the spark plug caps. These are $3 or $4 each, and often worth replacing if you're keeping the stock coils/wires.

Stock exhaust with NO leaks or holes -- good seals at the head and at the junctions underneath.
**********<end quote>**********
***********Quoted from Mr. bwringer***************
http://denniskirk.com
Put in your bike model and see what they have.

I would definitely double and triple the recommendations to use Cycle Recycle II and Z1 Enterprises as much as possible. These guys are priceless resources. Z1 tends to have slightly better prices, CRC2 has a wider range of goodies available. If you're near Indy and can bring in an old part to match, CRC2 has a vast inventory of used parts.

http://oldbikebarn.com seems to be slowly regaining a decent reputation, but it's still caveat emptor. They don't have anything you can't get elsewhere at a better price anyway.

OEM Parts/Online Fiches:

http://www.babbittsonline.com/
Decent parts prices. Spendy shipping. Don't give you part numbers at all. Useful cross-reference if you obtain a part number elsewhere. Efficient service.

http://bikebandit.com
Fastest. Middlin' prices. Uses their own parts numbering system to obfuscate price comparisons -- can be very confusing for large orders. Cheapest shipping, so total cost usually isn't too bad.

http://flatoutmotorcycles.com
Slow. Cheapest parts prices, crazy shipping costs. Don't expect progress updates or much communication. Real Suzuki part numbers.

http://alpha-sports.com
Exorbitant parts prices. Different type of fiche interface that's quite useful at times, especially with superceded part numbers. Real parts numbers. Shipping cost and speed unknown due to insane, unholy pricing.

Stainless Bolts, Viton o-rings, metric taps, dies, assorted hard-to-find supplies and materials, etc.:
http://mcmaster.com
Fast, cheap shipping, good prices. No order minimum, but many items like bolts come in packs of 25 or 50. Excellent resource.

http://motorcycleseatcovers.com
Great quality, perfect fit (on original seat foam), and available for pretty much every bike ever made. Avoid the textured vinyl -- it's perforated.

http://newenough.com
You DO have riding gear, don't you? Great clearances, always outstanding prices and impeccable service.
***************End Quote**********************

Here are a few extra links:

Cycle-Re-Cycle Part 2
http://crc2onlinecatalog.com/

The ever popular Z1 Enterprises
http://www.z1enterprises.com

The Rice Paddy (salvage/used)
http://www.ricepaddymotorcycles.com

Ron Ayers Motorsports
http://www.ronayers.com

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed of your progress. There's lots of good folk with good experience here.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
(The unofficial GSR greeter)