Concerns about excessive drive train lash and other issues on GS1100G

[Guest]

Hi all,
I have recently acquired a couple of GS1100G's (one as parts/project bike with all the parts but not assembled) and have spent many, many, many hours reading the old FAQ's and technical articles in an attempt to answer my future questions (did the research while waiting a couple of weeks for delivery of the bikes).... However..

I can't find the answers that I think you may be able to help with, so have listed a few below.

1. I have hopefully diagnosed my starved motor/petrol vacuum issues correctly and will have that sorted when the new petcock and vacuum hose arrive in the next day or two. (I figured I'd be wasting my time trying the parts bike components for this one due to the likelihood of the parts suffering the same aging fate) My humble apologies for having so rudely posted questions regarding this issue in the general discussion group. It was not my intention to ruffle the feathers of the old chooks. Thank you to those who had constructive comments.

2. Excessive drive train lash. In reading responses to similar questions, I note that a couple of times the helpful Guru's have asked how much the bike moves when in gear (and none of the initial questioners have responded). I have measured the movement (in my bike) as 2.5 inches (62mm). Is that excessive?... what do I do about it? I see that the Clymers manual state that adjustment is the exclusive domain of authorised dealers. I can't afford to pay them to f*ck it up, so am hoping that there is a simple solution (or at worst... that the amount of lash is normal).

3. I also have a very clunky first gear that gets considerably worse as the motor heats up. Yes the oil is clean (probably only a 1000 Km's or two since the last change judging by the colour) but I don't know what sort of oil it is, so I will replace it this weekend coming to see if it makes any difference. I believe that the recommended oil is (Clymers & Haynes SD or SE type SAE 10W/40) while the forum article on synthetic oils recomends SF/SG 20/50 Motorcycle oil. Please let me know your thoughts.

Have attached a couple of pics of my girls. They are both stamped as made in 1985, the one I am riding didn't hit the road till 87 (but ain't new any more).... misaligned triple clamps, welded stator/magneto cover, grazes to pipes, bar ends, headlight case, indicators etc etc. But I love them cause they are so much like my old 78 GS1000C that I had back in 80 to 82 (and never stopped dreaming about)... Pic also attached








Thanks in advance for your help.

[chiphead]

2.5 inches doesn't seem like a lot to me but I've never actually measured mine. This bike have incredibly high mileage on it? If not, just ride it.
Clunky first gear when coming from neutral is fairly normal. Again, just ride that thing.
Good looking bike. I wish they were available in the states.

[Nessism]

As chiphead states, 2.5 inches of lash doesn't sound too bad. There are lots of different gears involved between the transmission, secondary drive, and final drive, thus there is sure to be some play in the system. For the most part there is not any adjustment anyway so just ride.

Clunky shifting is often caused by clutch drag. You might want to tighten the clutch cable slightly to see if that helps.

For oil, Suzuki recommends 10W-40. There are tons of oil threads in the forum so you might want to do a search. Unfortunately, there is lots of bad information in many of the oil threads to don't believe everything you read.

Good luck.

[Planecrazy]

I've never measured the amount of "slop" on my "G," but over the last two years I noticed that things were getting increasingly clunky where they once were smooth. I suspected that my rear splines were about to go and sure enough, when I removed the rear wheel and removed the splines from the wheel itself, they were "thisclose" to stripping completely. You MUST remove the splines from the wheel to inspect them because the part you can see while they're installed generally don't make contact and wear - and you can mistakenly think that nothing's wrong there.

Here is an attempt at a cross-section of what mine looked like:

Good ones: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Bad ones with a good edge: ________________AA <----you only see this end so both look good while installed in the wheel

The '82 and later "G's" have a softer spline material, so there is a history of wear at this point. Replacing the wheel splines with those from an '81 or older 850/1000/1100 decreases the likelihood of future problems ... that's what I did. Also, make sure the splines are well lubed and even with the newer splines the problem is rare.

Regards,

[BassCliff]

Hey howdy hey!

Mr. Colin Green,

Let it be known that on this day you are cordially and formally welcomed to the GSR Forum as a Junior Member in good standing with all the rights and privileges thereof. Further let it be known that your good standing has been improved because you gave us pictures! :grin:

Is the bevel gear oil separate from the crankcase oil on your bike? If so, you should use 90wt gear oil for the bevel gears, same for the final drive unit. I use a 20w50 oil in the crankcase.

Perhaps you've already seen these, but I like to remind all the new members. In addition to the carb rebuild series, I recommend visiting the garage section via the GSR Hompage and check out the Stator Papers. There's also a lot of great information in the Old Q&A section. I have some documentation on my little BikeCliff website to help get you familiar with doing routine maintenance tasks (note that it is 850G-specific but many tasks are common to all GS bikes). Other "user contributed" informational sites include those of Mr. bwringer, Mr. tfb and Mr. robertbarr.

And here are some quotes from one of our dear beloved gurus, Mr. bwringer, with ideas on basic maintenance needs (depending on initial condition), parts, and accessories.

***********Quoted from Mr. bwringer************
Carburetor maintenance:

Replace the intake boot o-rings, and possibly the intake boots. Here's the procedure:
http://bwringer.com/gs/intakeorings.html

Here's an overview of what happens with this particular problem:
http://cycleorings.com/intake.html

You'll also want to examine the boots between the carbs and the airbox. There's a good chance these are OK, but check them over.

And finally, if things still aren't exactly right, you'll want to order a set of o-rings for BS carbs from the GS owner's best friend, Robert Barr:
http://cycleorings.com

Once you receive these rare rings of delight, then you'll want to thoroughly clean and rebuild your carburetors. Here are step-by-step instructions that make this simple:
http://thegsresources.com/gs_carbrebuild.htm
*************End Quote*************
**********<quote Mr. bwringer>**********
Every GS850 has (or had) a set of well-known issues that MUST be addressed before you have a solid baseline for further troubleshooting.

It's a vintage bike, and it's quite common (as in, every single GS850 I have had contact with) that there are multiple problems that have crept up and slowly gotten worse over the years.

It's not like a newer vehicle, where there's generally one problem at a time.

These common issues are:

Intake O-rings (install NEW OEM or Viton only - common nitrile o-rings will quickly deteriorate from heat)

Intake Boots (install NEW -- these cannot be repaired)

Valve clearances (more important than most people think)

Carb/airbox boots

Airbox sealing

Air filter sealing

Petcock (install a NEW one)

On '79 models, install new points or Dyna electronic ignition (or at least verify that the old points are working correctly)

On all models, it's fairly common to have problems with the spark plug caps. These are $3 or $4 each, and often worth replacing if you're keeping the stock coils/wires.

Stock exhaust with NO leaks or holes -- good seals at the head and at the junctions underneath.
**********<end quote>**********
***********Quoted from Mr. bwringer***************
http://denniskirk.com
Put in your bike model and see what they have.

I would definitely double and triple the recommendations to use Cycle Recycle II and Z1 Enterprises as much as possible. These guys are priceless resources. Z1 tends to have slightly better prices, CRC2 has a wider range of goodies available. If you're near Indy and can bring in an old part to match, CRC2 has a vast inventory of used parts.

http://oldbikebarn.com seems to be slowly regaining a decent reputation, but it's still caveat emptor. They don't have anything you can't get elsewhere at a better price anyway.

OEM Parts/Online Fiches:

http://www.babbittsonline.com/
Decent parts prices. Spendy shipping. Don't give you part numbers at all. Useful cross-reference if you obtain a part number elsewhere. Efficient service.

http://bikebandit.com
Fastest. Middlin' prices. Uses their own parts numbering system to obfuscate price comparisons -- can be very confusing for large orders. Cheapest shipping, so total cost usually isn't too bad.

http://flatoutmotorcycles.com
Slow. Cheapest parts prices, crazy shipping costs. Don't expect progress updates or much communication. Real Suzuki part numbers.

http://alpha-sports.com
Exorbitant parts prices. Different type of fiche interface that's quite useful at times, especially with superceded part numbers. Real parts numbers. Shipping cost and speed unknown due to insane, unholy pricing.

Stainless Bolts, Viton o-rings, metric taps, dies, assorted hard-to-find supplies and materials, etc.:
http://mcmaster.com
Fast, cheap shipping, good prices. No order minimum, but many items like bolts come in packs of 25 or 50. Excellent resource.

http://motorcycleseatcovers.com
Great quality, perfect fit (on original seat foam), and available for pretty much every bike ever made. Avoid the textured vinyl -- it's perforated.

http://newenough.com
You DO have riding gear, don't you? Great clearances, always outstanding prices and impeccable service.
***************End Quote**********************

Here are a few extra links:

Cycle-Re-Cycle Part 2
http://crc2onlinecatalog.com/

The ever popular Z1 Enterprises
http://www.z1enterprises.com

The Rice Paddy (salvage/used)
http://www.ricepaddymotorcycles.com

Ron Ayers Motorsports
http://www.ronayers.com

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed of your progress. There's lots of good folk with good experience here.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
(The unofficial GSR greeter)

[Planecrazy]

Ya know, Cliff, it'd be nice if every once in awhile you'd provide helpful tips and links along with your greetings! :shock::shock:;-)

That has to be just about the most thorough single post I've seen in my many years here ... nice job, Buddy!!!

Regards,

[Redman]

Colin,

Picture that shows the rear drive hub with the worn splines like PlaneCrasy so well described.
Showns my worn one as compared to a new one.



THis was from a 1100GK I got, and took off rear wheel specifically to inspect the wear on this. I found it to be dry as if previous owners had not greased it. Had more drive train lash than you described. Wheel would turn almost from one "spoke" to the next.

I also had an 80 GS850G for 14 years and 40+ thousand miles. I greased that hub every time the rear wheel was off - no problem.

.

[lurch12_2000]

Bike looks better now that you took that sissy bar off!
My '83 GS1100G uses 10w-40 for the engine, 75w-90 hypoid gear oil for the tranny and 75w-90 hypoid gear oil for the rear end.
Use the Moly-60 grease (avail at Honda dealer for $10 a tube) for the rear splines when you take the rear wheel apart so as to be sure it lasts.
Never measured my lash but there is some slop and occasionly clunk when engaging 1st gear.
Unless you pop a lot of wheelies I would just ride it and get a feel for the bike.

[Colin Green]

Clack, Clack, Clack, Clack, Clack, Clack, Clack, Clack

Thanks for all your replies guys. I appreciate all of your helpful comments and the interest you have shown in a strangers problems. Basscliff! you are a freak. That was an awesomely helpful and link filled post. I haven't had a chance to look all the links over yet (but will). I have already sussed all the GS forum material that you provided links for (incl the old FAQ's) I have even printed off about 80 pages of useful 'How to' articles and a host of trouble shooting tips and bound them into a fully indexed Maintenance/Troubleshooting/How-to guide that now keeps my Clymer and Haynes manuals company. I even saw a brief article by my ex brother in law (Michael Dixon) about replacing a cam chain without pulling the motor out, or apart. Seen as how you like pictures I have attached a couple of shots of ugly old Hondas that I have owned.

PlaneCrazy, Redman, Chiphead and Nessism. Thanks for that info, Makes me feel better to know that the 2&1/2 inch movement is unlikely to be indicative of serious spline wear. I will have to spend the weekend after next doing some serious maintenance on the old girl (have a family wedding down the line this weekend). Looks like the wheel and shaft will be added to the priority list... which so far, includes Brake fluid flush (keep crushing my fingers), Petcock & Vacuum hose replacement, Oil & filter change and triple clamp alignment.

I bought myself some semi synthetic 10W-40 bike oil and Castrol Hypoid 80-90 on the way home (when I picked up my new Petcock) but forgot the oil filter... Doh! so didn't do the planed oil change tonight. The local Bike buggerers tell me that a carb balancing thingy is $180 (U$ 135). Anyone want to post me a good cheap one???

When I got home I noticed a nasty and very audible knocking sound when in neutral (located with screw driver as coming from the trans) Clack, Clack, Clack, Clack, Clack, Clack, Clack, Clack.... Sounds very scary. I forgot to check if it was the same while in gear with the clutch in (tomorrows mission). I haven't had the bike long but am pretty sure that this in a new issue (as I hadn't heard it before). The oil is almost clear and slightly over full. Any ideas what might be causing such a ruckus????.

I checked the bevel gear oil level and found that it was considerably over full. It took about 5-7 minutes of draining through the oil level screw before it was at the right level.

Almost forgot. I had a look at my Rectifier/Regulator (have no idea whether it is an original or Electrex) the number on top is SH548-12 followed by 2.6 below. Anyone know if it is an original Suzuki part??

Thanks again for all your help.

My FT 500 sold to a collector a few weeks ago



My XL175 back in 76/77

[chiphead]

What side of the tranny/engine case is the clacking coming from? Out of synch carbs will knock and rock the clutch basket around pretty good.

[lurch12_2000]

After reading this thread, I got curious and measured my '83 GS1100G's (w/36k miles) drive train lash. On the centerstand, engine off, and in first gear I chalked the floor to mark the start and stop of the rear wheel, and measured 2 inches of travel before locking. Is this the proper way to measure? How does it compare with others?

[gert du prez]

If I'm not mistaken, the RR's SH is referring to the Shindengen 12V regulator/rectifier that is used as a replacement for the standard Suzuki RR. I guess that a previous owner already did that modification for you. I once also bought a bike for spare parts and found out that it had a lot of neat stuff hidden...4-1 exhaust, LED's, good RR, ... even though it looked like a pile of...