Any interest in a how-to for making LED turn signals?

[Steve]

Interesting. So, strictly speaking, the headlight modulators are also banned.

NO....HEADLIGHT MODULATORS ARE NOT BANNED. :shock:

The distinction comes in how the different devices operate. The regulations that Sparkster mentioned all said something about "flashing", "strobing", "oscillating" or "rotating". "Flashing" is cycling the power ON and OFF, with the durations being approximately equal. "Strobing" is a very quick application of power, either with a xenon bulb or very bright LEDs. "Oscillating" is repeated alternating operation in a partial rotation. "Rotating" is continuous operation in a full circle.

A (properly designed) headlight modulator does NONE of those. According to what is required for proper modulation, the voltage to the headlight must never go below 16% of full operating voltage, and it must remain at full operating voltage for 50-70% of the time, AND it must cycle at 240 +/-40 cycles per minute. Since the headlight does NOT flash, it is not prohibited by the statutes above. 8-[ Besides, Federal Regulation FMVSS 108 (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) (49 CFR Part 571.108 S7.9.4) allows motorcycle headlight modulation systems in all 50 states provided they comply with the standards, and Title 49 USC 30103 (b1) (US Codes) prohibits any state from forbidding a system that conforms to FMVSS 108.

For brake light modulation, there does not appear to be any Federal or State agreement on whether they should be allowed or how they should work. However, many officers that I have asked about them seem to agree that, as long as not all of the brake lights flash, and, at some point they all remain steady, you will probably not be bothered. Some of the reasoning there is that if ALL of your brake lights go through a modulator and the modulator fails, do you have brake lights or not? They would prefer that some of your lights operate steady as normal.

Interesting sidebar, here. My city's police force has a Harley they use on patrol in favorable weather. It has an aftermarket LED tail/brake light with a built-in modulator. It is the only brake light, and it flashes for a few seconds then goes steady.

[Sparkster]

I concur about the headlight modulator. It pulses or fluctuates which is not mentioned in the ohio law.

[earlfor]

Federal law specifically approves of the use of motorcycle headlight modulators within specified parameters. Consequently, they are legal in every state.

Earl

[Pete Logan]

I can only speak for myself, of course, but I tend to ignore bikers unless they are being stupid. Show me a wheely or some other dumb crap and I'll hook you up with numerous points on your license but other than that motorcycles don't exist when I'm in the uniform. The pulsing lights and the brake lights that flash a few times then stay lit don't bother be in slightest- it makes the rider safer and thats all that matters.

Oh Lord - send me more policemen like this :-D:-D:-D

I mean policemen with a brain and the guts to use it.

[Dogma]

With my background, "oscillating" sounds like any kind of cyclical behavior, including flashing, strobing, pulsing, whatever. Thanks for the clarification.

[biffington]

brake lights that don't stay on

I can say for sure that the regs require a solid on brake lamp. Emergency vehicles always get exceptions, so the aforementioned Harley is not a good example. As long as you have one lamp that comes on solid you are OK. The regs do have a little slack in them for taking some time to come on. Incandescant bulbs can take as much as a half second to come on. An LED can flash three or four noticable times in that half second. I suspect that is what those 'flash and then on' lamps are doing. Just my opinion, I have never actually measured one.

I agree with Sparkster, as long as it is obvious that you are not trying to be an emergency vehicle, it should be OK. (of course the laws don't bend for opinions unless it is the opinion of the enforcement officer) Auxiliary lights are not covered by any regs that I am aware of. Semi truck drivers often add lighting for decoration or conspicuity without problems as long as rear facing lamps are red and forward facing lamps are amber (yellow). Side facing lamps are normally amber. The only amber lights that are allowed facing backward are turn signals. Any other color lamp is not allowed as it would create confusion as to the direction the vehicle is moving. So you should be able to add lamps for conspicuity as long as you have that one main lamp that is meeting specs.

Dogma, I think those little flashy lights you have are a good thnig, and don't look at all like an emergency vehicle, so I would think you are fine with them. (unless you run into an officer that is not as clear minded as Sparkster)

[Dogma]

Dogma, I think those little flashy lights you have are a good thing, and don't look at all like an emergency vehicle, so I would think you are fine with them. (unless you run into an officer that is not as clear minded as Sparkster)

Well, I haven't found one that is unclear-minded yet. Well, there was that one from Detroit I met at a party, but that's another story. If I was going to get in trouble for equipment on the bike, I think the speedometer is first in line, since it reads low.

[Pete Logan]

I think the speedometer is first in line, since it reads low.

But once the officer has stopped you, how will he know, unless you tell him ?

"Oh I'm sorry I was doing 102, officer, but my speedo said I was only doing 75" :-D

Right up there along with "Thank you, officer. BTW, can you tell me how far it is to the nearest bar ?"

:-D:-D

[egent]

Has anyone used the pre-made LED's from this site?

http://www.motorcycle-leds.com/

If so, how do they stack up in the replacement area for our Suzuki GS's? I know on the web, they seem to list mostly lights for HD, but they do mention having some available for Suzuki as well as other manufacturers.

[Kcwiro]

I have the rectangular turn signals not the circular ones... I'm just trying to visualize how I would get the power to the plexie lights...that relay to get the LED to flash... common places those are placed?.. I'm sure I don't want it too exposed...Idealy I would try and keep the units swapable to easily switch back to standard bulbs if I so chose to. That was just a thought...with the plexie I'd think I could just cut it in a fasion to fit into my signal casing.

I pretty tech savy but electronics is something that still evades me... I just am not good at putting it all together...funny I know but me and electricity have had our shocking moments:-D

I have a diagram somewhere around here on how I make running lights on my bike but not sure what modification to the circuit I'd have to do for running lights with these since you mentioned them getting 'hot'...picture of step by step on this if I got for it I'm sure would help others...though I would treat it more of a 'this is what I did' your mileage may vary kind of approach...I'm sure mass produced kits would just be expensive as apposed to the DIY approach...common investment is time

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/50X-1...9337QQtcZphoto

$17 shipped for 50 LEDs, you might find fewer for cheaper
$20 for four used turn signals AND the headlight assembly (free if you're retrofitting your own existing ones)
$7-ish for a small sheet of plexi (I used this inside to mount the LEDs)
$7 for an electronic signal relay to replace the stock thermal relay that wouldn't trip with the LEDs attatched:

[Sparkster]

Disclaimer:
Everything mentioned here is pretty much specific to my 1980 GS 850g. Do a reality check on your own wiring before doing anything rash. And don't violate any federal lighting regs. Not that there's any federal police driving around with photometers and ticket books...

... I'm just trying to visualize how I would get the power to the plexie lights...

Your signals will contain 1, 2, or 3 wires running to them:
If 1 then this is your 12v+ lead and your negative terminals from the LEDs will need grounded to the ground screw inside the flasher housing. The flasher housing then grounds to the chassis when its all hooked up.
If 2 then EITHER one should be ground and one should be 12v+ OR both are 12v+; one for turn signal and one for running lights. Mine was like that; red for turn signal, blue for running light but I don't know if it was factory or an aftermarker addition by a previous owner.
If 3 then one will be ground and TWO will be 12v+ (one of those will be a running light and one will be the flasher lead. Use a volt meter to find out by turning the turn signal on and off.

that relay to get the LED to flash...common places those are placed?.. I'm sure I don't want it too exposed...

The relay replaces the existing one. You will find it under the right side cover and it is a black rectangular box mounted to the battery box. Lift up to slide it off its mount. It is a three prong but replace it with the two prong pictured. It will then not be exposed.

Idealy I would try and keep the units swapable to easily switch back to standard bulbs if I so chose to.

Not sure if this will be excessively easy. Soldering is the most reliable method of wiring everything and the only way to make it "easily switchable" is to use something like a twist on splicer. I wouldn't trust those for bike lighting.

I cut the plexi into a square small enough that, once the corners were ground off, it would fit inside the signal... (On the flasher housing the bigger screw hole is the ground screw)


I then drilled pairs of tiny holes about a centimeter apart for each LED to be mounted:


Just make sure that when you feed them power you do so in parallell, NOT series. You want them all sharing the same common hot and ground connections as opposed to the neg from one wiring to the pos from the previous in a chain. If you get these from the "Light of Victory" guy on ebay they will always come with resistors rated for use with 12v. Heat has never been a problem for me using his resistors.

[Kcwiro]

I will have to check the existing wires on my bike for if I have the two or one, replaced my turn signal bulbs once and never had to look at them since I bought the bike... I have a 750 and my turn signal relay is located under my gas tank between my upper fram rails on a simular clip to your description. Since I do not have existing running lights I am betting I have two wires...

The switchable was only an idea, if it is too much trouble or will raise too many flags I'll just go one way or the other...no worries

Looks like you just cut the plexi to size so it did not move around in the fixture, since yours had a metal backing for mirror I might have to Macgyver something up since i have black plastic backing and some small reflective sheet behind my bulb which is mounted sideways... won't know until I try. I will have to see how many of those LED I can wire in, I'd think if I can get 10 in there they would be very bright =) but I'll have to see how much space I have to work with. figure if I insulate the tails away from each other the only limit is my surface area to work with..

The 50 unit kit looks fine I doubt I will need that many to do this but we will see.

For wiring... in paralell I assuming you mean a power wire +12v to each bulb all meeting off the mainline into the signal fixture since even I know series involves the ol dazy chain approach.... I would buy 100 but hell I think that is way too much.. though my friend may want to try these on his 550 after he see's them on mine =) ... I'll do the extra stuff later.

Thanks for the info =)

question.. what did you use for testing to power the unit on... since I live away from my bike location I would not mind being able to wire it up to something or maybe I can just pull my battery out and drop the wire contacts to my bike battery (needs replacing anyway since the negative terminal broke on me) but I should be able to just touch wires to it to get my 12V test I can't wait to get started... will have to dust off the sodering iron. stupid questin maybe but I am terrible at guestimation of wire guage thinking 14-16 guage should surfice for this. Correct me if I am wrong

[Kcwiro]

Awesome

Well I got mystuff and a fellow gs buddy worked with me this weekend to build my LED turn signals...we took pictures of the process so others interested can copy our method. I was able to get 11 LED's to fit into the signal and they are definately bright though tight.

I am happy with the project and once I wire in the electornic relay they will be good. I do think that are a tad dimmer than my stock bulbs but the power they take to run if measured correctly at either end of the circuit was 2V instead of 12V =) ... 10V savings per signal... and don't stand direclty behind these puppies... you'll see spots =P

way to configure the LED's to be runnign lights?... just a thought no worries... but dam they look sweet =)

will post them in the next week or so stay tuned