Charging problems?

[RevRoy]

Hey, everyone. The past couple times I've started my 1980 GS550e, I have had to jump-start it. It starts right up, then I run it at least to operating temperature. Two weeks ago, I rode for almost 2 hours, but since it has been wet and snowy.

Anyway, today I again had to jump the GS, and it started right up. I ran the engine for half an hour, shut it off, then tried to restart it. Nothing, not even the "neutral" light would come on. When I hooked up the jumper cables again, it started right up. While the engine is running, everything works properly (headlight, turn signals, brake lights, etc).

The battery was new last August, and up until the past two or three starts it has always performed fine. I am wondering, could this be an alternator problem ... as in, the battery is not being charged?

Any help will be, as always, gratefully received.

[marvinsc]

Sounds like Your Stator or RR (or Both) are fried. Sounds like a trip to "The Stator Papers" in the garage section of the GSR Home page is in order. Good luck with it, most GS owners have been through it, or will.

[BassCliff]

Cooking with electrons

Mr. RevRoy,

I've had my bike a year now (uncertain history provided by PO) and in that time I have replaced the regulator/rectifier (with a Honda upgrade part from Mr. duaneage), the stator (part of the "generator" system), and the battery (with an AGM sealed service-free Yasua). I went through The Stator Papers, as Mr. marvinsc mentions, and decided to replace all three parts over the course of a couple of months. My stator was definitely fried but I wanted to start out with all known good stuff. Hopefully I won't have to worry about it for another 25 years.

You might not need a new battery right now but use the troubleshooting flowchart in The Stator Papers to narrow down your problem area. Keep us informed.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[Steve]

Sounds like right now would be a good time to elevate your friendship with a voltmeter to "best friend" status. 8-[

First thing to do is to make sure all the connections from the stator to the r/r to the battery are clean and tight. Do all the tests in The Stator Papers. By checking voltages and resistances at the various points, you will soon learn where the problems lie.


.

[RevRoy]

Yeah, I plan on checking all m connections ... I had an electrical problem once before that involved a bad connection.

I looked at the Stator Papers. I guess I am stupid, but where the hell is the Stator? And the R/R? I guess I am going to get acquainted with a shop.

[spyug]

Sorry to say my friend but you have a charging issue. You do need to read the Stator Papers as suggested and get yourself a good digital multi meter. Using the multimeter check across the battery terminals and see if you are charging. The bike at 2000 to 3000 revs should be pushing high 13 to 14+ volts. Anything less and your not charging.

First thing to do is run a wire directly from the rectifier negative lead to the negative terminal of the battery. Often this cures the problem and she'll start charging. If not you'll need to follow through on the checks in the Stator papers. Very probably you'll need to replace the rectifier as per BassCliff's info.

Hopefully you can get this sorted fairly easily so don't panic.

Good luck with this.

Cheers,
Spyug.


PS I read your post after writing this and I think you need to get a service manual (Chiltons, Haynes) to help you understand these parts and how they interact.

[bonanzadave]

I guess I am going to get acquainted with a shop.

Shop ? We dont need no stinking shop ! :-D

Really, Do it your self. Youll be glad you saved the money and gained the knowledge of what makes your bike tick.......or rev......or run, or whatever.

[marvinsc]

Yeah, I plan on checking all m connections ... I had an electrical problem once before that involved a bad connection.

I looked at the Stator Papers. I guess I am stupid, but where the hell is the Stator? And the R/R? I guess I am going to get acquainted with a shop.

Hey Roy, Go Here. http://www.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/

See stator Replacement, the best tutorial with pics I have seen.

[BassCliff]

Nooooo, not the shop!

Yeah, I plan on checking all m connections ... I had an electrical problem once before that involved a bad connection.

I looked at the Stator Papers. I guess I am stupid, but where the hell is the Stator? And the R/R? I guess I am going to get acquainted with a shop.

Mr. RevRoy,

Check my little BikeCliff website for a step-by-step "how to" replace your stator (under the left crankcase cover). If I can do it, anybody can! My r/r is bolted to the bottom of the battery box. On your bike, it may be under the left side cover. Do you have a manual?

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[SPARKSS]

Hey, everyone. The past couple times I've started my 1980 GS550e, I have had to jump-start it. It starts right up, then I run it at least to operating temperature. ..... I rode for almost 2 hours, .....
Anyway, today I again had to jump the GS, and it started right up. I ran the engine for half an hour, shut it off, then tried to restart it. Nothing, not even the "neutral" light would come on. When I hooked up the jumper cables again, it started right up. While the engine is running, everything works properly (headlight, turn signals, brake lights, etc).

Hi there RevRoy......If that were mine, I'd start with checking system voltage across the battery. Can you charge your battery with an external charger such that it'll crank and start the bike? What I'm keying on is 2 things......first that you say it runs normal after boosting (does this include the horn and is the horn good and strong? (this is a good quicky test for the GS due to the current required). Is there any indication of interaction such as headlight dimming when turn signals are operating etc.....).

If it appears that you can't charge your battery externally or sufficiently to pass a standard 15 second load test at say 40 - 50 amperes then you "might" find that your battery has opened or developed other problems (this can happen quite suddenly and is not that uncommon).

EVEN IF the system voltage appears to be low......don't fault the charging system just yet. VERIFY that the battery can be charged externally with a seperate charger and easily pass a load test (if you can find out the CCA or Cold Crank Ampere rating of your battery, even better......load test to 1/2 this value for 15 seconds and you should have greater than 9.6 volts at room temp). A reason for seeing low system voltage with a good charging system is that a battery with one or more shorted cells will not allow most charging systems to bring the voltage up......current will be high....voltage low.....battery will overcharge the good cells (you'll see evidence of gassing) and performance will be poor to unuseable.

Just an additional .02 worth

[bwringer]

For the sake of all that's good and holy, do NOT take your GS to a shop. They will destroy your bike and rape your wallet. Shops are certain death for fine vintage machinery.

All the info you need is right here in this thread. An adequate voltmeter is less than $10. The other tools needed are common and rudimentary.

You can do it.


And hey, aren't there any GS-ers around KC that might lend a hand? Gotta be a few around there somewhere.

[RevRoy]

Thanks, SPARKSS. Yes, everything works just fine while the GS is running ... headlight, brake lights, turn signals, horn (air horn, which seems to have all its punch).

This low battery business actually began, I think, six-or-so weeks ago. I'd go out and start the bike, run it in my driveway if there was snow, or otherwise put about 25 miles on it no matter how cold the weather was. I just wrote off the low battery to sitting six days a week.

Yesterday was the first time it would do nothing (electrical) after having run for 20 - 30 minutes. Plenty of time for the battery to be charged. For the entire time, the headlight, etc, worked as normal. Come to think of it, the present state of affairs may have been the case six weeks ago, because yesterday was the first time I had tried to restart it.

Saturday I am taking the battery to a shop to try and charge it, and do a load test. Will let you know ....

[brand new bike zealot]

I've had ongoing charging issues with my 78 550, that now seem to have been solved.

I had a similar issue as you rev, in that I could have the battery charged right up, go ride for a few hours, and the battery would be dead. The bike would actually stall out once I was off the freeway and stopped at a light, and I'd have to kickstart it. I'd done the stator papers (learn them! understand them! don't be afraid, it took me a while and I'm far better for it!) and it seemed the stator was alright, I'd replaced the r/r as the bike had the original separate reg/rectifier setup and the regulator was burnt right out, but it clearly still wasn't charging the battery.

Rechecked things after I understood my multimeter and the fabled stator papers a little better, turns out my stator is weak (65v per leg) but acceptable. R/R was fine. Problem was bad ground from the r/r! Simple but true. My advice is to clean or replace all your connections, run another heavy gauge ground wire from your r/r to your battery negative and you could well be all smiles! It's amazing how the simple stuff like connections can trip you up!

good luck!

[RevRoy]

Hey, everyone.

Well, I followed all the kind advice, and guess what? The ground on the R/R was loose and flopping around. I tightened the bolt down to about 90 lbs of torque, then charged my battery, which checked out on a load test. I started the bike and it showed 14+ amps over the + and - battery terminals at 3,000 rpms. It has started just like the good ol' days since yesterday morning.

Why can I not make myself check nuts and bolts, which seem to wiggle loose all too often?

Thanks to all of you. You're all a great bunch of people. But, hey, I'm here, so it's gotta be great:-D

The only dark spot is that I took it out for a ride today after Mass, and now I've got a flat rear tire Well, I was going to adjust the chain and check the rear brake pads anyway ...

Thanks again.\\/

[bonanzadave]

it showed 14+ amps over the + and - battery terminals at 3,000 rpms.

Amps, Volts, Watts.....Its all the same. :-D

Good catch on the loose bolt. Get a can of spray electrical contact cleaner and pull apart and spray all your connectors.

It keeps the Amps in ! :-D