Valve Adjustment Measures

[KRISTI'SGS550]

Hey all,
I am still trying to figure out how to measure the clearance between the valves and the shaft. I know how to spin and what I am measuring. I just need to know how far my feeler gauges are supposed to go between the two things? Can anyone tak e a picture of how far the feeler gauge is supposed to go please? Is it supposed to go between and come out the other side, halfway, just fit between the two? I am lost and stuck. Please help me. I am a very visual learner and could use a picture or two.

Thanks again.

Cory

[Suzuki_Don]

Sorry I haven't got a picture for you Cory. But I'll do my best with an explanation. The feeler gauge strip must pass all the way between the backside of the cam lobe if you know what I mean (as opposed to the high side that depresses the valves) and the shim that sits in the bucket. Because the feeler gauge is extremely thin (about 0.0015") you need to push it through with both hands, thumb and forefinger on each side of the strip. It will want to bend and buckle, but it can be done if the clearance is there. If it will not pass through then that valve is too tight. Measure all valves in the different positions and record the findings on Steve's sheet. Do not remove shims from their buckets and turn the engine over or you will damage the camshaft lobes.
Hope this helps.

[psyguy]

sometimes a feeler gauge wont go in at first try, they are very thin and flexible, lubricate it with a drop of oil and try again, holding the gage with your fingers as close to the cam/shim as possible (so the gauge doesnt bend)
start with the thinnest gauge you have

since you're posting this question again, i suspect your valves might be all too tight and thats why you have problems measuring the gap 8-[

[lurch12_2000]

I'd recommend that you use mm not inches to avoid confusion.
Gap should be between .03-.08mm when engine is cold (overnight would be good). I think the feeler guage should pass all the way through so you can see it come out the other side.
Kind of like passing a piece of paper through a crack. As you insert the gauge with one hand use the other hand to hold steady the thin paper like gauge to pass through. If it doesn't pass through on a couple of tries then don't force it.

[Chuckster]

Hey Cory, I'm like you in that I also am visual with most everything. I've considered doing what you are doing when I'm through with my carb work, but I'm not exactly sure how to do it. I'll be following your thread and maybe picking your brain later! :-D -Chuck

[Dogma]

sometimes a feeler gauge wont go in at first try, they are very thin and flexible, lubricate it with a drop of oil and try again, holding the gage with your fingers as close to the cam/shim as possible (so the gauge doesnt bend)
start with the thinnest gauge you have

since you're posting this question again, i suspect your valves might be all too tight and thats why you have problems measuring the gap 8-[

My experience checking my 850 backs this up. At first, I thought I had no clearance on any of my valves because the feeler gage stopped. What I later discovered was that just the viscosity of the oil on the cam was enough to stop the feeler. With a little gentle persistence, it did go through. Once I learned the difference in feel between this and actually having no clearance, I discovered that only 3 valves actually had the no clearance condition.

[KRISTI'SGS550]

Thank you all for the help. I feel better about doing this. So if I read what you all are saying right the feeler gauge needs to pass all the way through, not just stop somewhere between. I will try to lube the gauges and try again later. I will post my findings. I just found it odd that none of my shims will allow the .03mm shim all the way through, but I may be not guiding it enough. More to come!

Thanks,

Cory

[KRISTI'SGS550]

I just went back through and measured all of them again. With my smallest feeler gauge .038mm I can't push through any of the gaps. Does this mean I need 1 size smaller of shims? My next move would be to pull them and find the sizes, put them into steve's spreadsheet and find out what sizes I need. Maybe I can swap some around from what I already have. Could this be a big reason the bike was running so rough?

Thanks,

Cory

[Suzuki_Don]

I just went back through and measured all of them again. With my smallest feeler gauge .038mm I can't push through any of the gaps. Does this mean I need 1 size smaller of shims? My next move would be to pull them and find the sizes, put them into steve's spreadsheet and find out what sizes I need. Maybe I can swap some around from what I already have. Could this be a big reason the bike was running so rough?

Thanks,

Cory

If all valves were tight then you would be losing compression on all cylinders and therefore have incomplete combustion. i.e. valves open when spark plugs fire. Take each shim out one at a time. Mike them with vernier and then replace in bucket. Then go on to the next one and record your findings on Steve's spreadsheet. Follow sequence in Suzuki manual. Then you will see if there are some thinner shims that can be swapped into other locations. It pays to have a spare shim that can be put in the bucket where you have removed one from that you want to swap so when you turn the engine over the cam lobe will not interfere with the sharp edges of the bucket. All buckets must have shims in them when the motor is being turned over.

[TheCafeKid]

Yes, Yes and Most Definately.

I would suggest however, that you only pull one shim at a time, and NEVER turn the cams without a shim in the bucket. The best idea is to, one at a time, inventory the size of the shims you have in the bike currently. That way you have a base to go off of when selecting your next shim size. With personal experience, depending on how long the motor has gone between shim swaps/adjustments, one size may in fact not be enough. Lets hope that it is however, as any more may indicate the valve sticking open enough to burn. Fingers crossed for you bud.

[BassCliff]

Just double-checking

I just went back through and measured all of them again. With my smallest feeler gauge .038mm I can't push through any of the gaps.

Mr. KRISTI'SGS550 (Cory),

Please forgive my bone-headed questions. Are you sure you are using metric feeler gauges and not inches? Are you using a .038 millimeter gauge or a .038 inch gauge? I'm sure there are all kinds of different sets with different widths, but my metric set came in .01mm increments; .04mm, .05mm, .06mm, .07mm, etc. My SAE feeler gauge has odd widths like .038", .024", .015", etc.

I just want to make sure you are setting your valve clearances properly.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[KRISTI'SGS550]

Mr. KRISTI'SGS550 (Cory),

Please forgive my bone-headed questions. Are you sure you are using metric feeler gauges and not inches? Are you using a .038 millimeter gauge or a .038 inch gauge? I'm sure there are all kinds of different sets with different widths, but my metric set came in .01mm increments; .04mm, .05mm, .06mm, .07mm, etc. My SAE feeler gauge has odd widths like .038", .024", .015", etc.

I just want to make sure you are setting your valve clearances properly.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

BassCliff,
it is a great question, and the answer is yes I am sure I am using mm. The actuall feeler gauge is in inches, but it also has mm marks below the inches.

[psyguy]

after you note down the thickness of all the shims, swap some sizes around just to see if one size down is going to be enough (so you dont order shims you cant actually use)
eg. if you have, say, 270 on one cylinder and 265 somewhere else, swap them and measure the gap (on the new position of 265) again - that should give you an idea of what a size down shim is actually going to do

i hope this is explained clear enough (it is to my mind but i can see how it can come across a bit confusing too )

[KRISTI'SGS550]

psyguy,

yeah it does make sense in my head too. Good point with moving them around a bit.

Cory

[Steve]

A good example of shim swapping:
I helped someone with a valve adjust last summer. All eight valves needed to be adjusted. We were able to move shims around and only buy two. \\/

.