Two quick questions

[Anonymous]

1. On the back of the clutch basket on '79 GS550 & '80 GS1000, there are six springs arranged along the circumferance, which don't seem to be loaded and are retained by a couple of metal tongues. What are they for?

2. How does one properly lubricate throttle/clutch/choke cables?

Thanks!

[Guy]

Dunno about the clutch business, but as to lubricating the control cables: Let go of the upper ends, temporarily bind them all together with a cable tie or some insulating tape so that they are all pointing upwards. Make a little funnel around the top of each outer sleeve with plasticine, blue tack or whatever stuff you use in Canada. Fill them all with light machine oil/ engine oil and top them up every 15 minutes or so. After a while you will see oil dripping from the lower end at the carbs, clutch actuating arm etc. Do this every 3-6 months and you won't end up with a sudden cable failure. Ever try riding a gs 850 in heavy city traffic with no clutch ?

[Anonymous]

Usually on a stock clutch basket thereare some heavy springs and some lighter springs. As the torque is applied, the lighter springs compress and the backing plate then pushes against the heavier springs. Yhe springs make the clutch engage a bit smooyher than if they were not there. f you have ever seen a fiber clutch dish from a standard shifr autu they usually have some springs in them also.

[Motorcyclemodeller]

The clutch hub springs, are to dampen the force of the engagement of power; it smooths out take offs and shifting. This is a particularly week part of the GS motor. It is recomended to have the three rivets that hold the two parts together welded, they build up the rivets with weld to strengthen the whole assembly and reduce the amount of travel of the whole assembly. This is known as a welded clutch basket. For drag racing applications they replace the springs with heavier ones and use larger rivets, plus weld them. This last proceedure is not neccessary for a stock or slightly modified motor. But if you have it apart, a welded clutch basket is a good investment.

They sell cable lubers at most bike shops for less than 10 bucks, or you can use an old trick I used to use.

Fill a balloon with some engine oil
Tape it to one end of the cable
Invert and squeeze balloon until oil comes out the other end
Cable lubed!

Hope this helps,

8) Andre 8)

[Anonymous]

Always thought the clutch basket was a single piece. Am I to understand that there isn't a direct connection between the driving gear and the part of the basket that holds the clutch plates? Is this something I should be able to rotate slightly by hand, or are some of the springs pre-loaded?

Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Always thought the clutch basket was a single piece. Am I to understand that there isn't a direct connection between the driving gear and the part of the basket that holds the clutch plates? Is this something I should be able to rotate slightly by hand, or are some of the springs pre-loaded?

Thanks!

2 pieces and it should be held firmly with a couple of the springs. If you can move it the springs are worn a bit too much. I feel that unless you have a modified engine or really beat on the stock basket they will hold up fine. IMHO

[silverhorse47]

I was worried about my clutch basket for the same reason...the springs were a bit loose and I could rotate/move the back plate a wee bit. I took it to a guy in town that rebuilds auto clutches etc. He advised me that it was working fine, and confirmed that the rattle I heard when the clutch was out was these springs, as they were a bit shorter than the holes they were in.
He said it was ok to just take a broad angled cold chisel and hammer it into the gaps in the springs to spread them out a bit again. This did indeed stop the rattling...for how long I don't know. I asked if they ever put shim washers along the end of the springs to shorten the gap up a bit and he said yes, that in fact one can buy washers for that very purpose. It was also his opinion, as Slowpoke said, that for general riding there was no real need to weld the rivets or increase their size.
I would definitely recommend using the cold chisel technique...even if the temper in the springs is a bit gone, it's bound to help a bit.

[Paul]

When your clutch starts rattling it's caused by clearance on the springs.
This gets progressively worse until the constant rattling starts to crack the back plate, then its only a matter of time until the plate disintegrates. This will then take out the oil pump and usually damages number 4 big-end and/or mainbearings.
The only safe way to fix it is to get the backplate/studs replaced with a stainless steel, like a drag-race type.
Hitting the springs to spread them is a back street bodge job, it will last about the first 3 or 4 times you use the clutch, if they don't break because you may have marked the springs.
The harder you dump the clutch the more stress you are putting on the springs/backplate.

[Anonymous]

Clutch rattle

This is interesting... The reason I started taking the bike apart is because I noticed a rattle which seemed to be coming from around the gearbox. At idle, in neutral, there was no rattle, but when I gave it a bit of gas (still in neutral), there was a rattle -- sounded just like I imagine a loose spring moving through oil would. Does this sound like it might be the "clutch rattle" you're referring to? I noticed there are already shim washers on a couple of the springs. Can the loose springs be shimmed a bit more to tighten them up, or is replacement (as Paul suggests) necessary?

Michael

[Anonymous]

Re: Clutch rattle

This is interesting... The reason I started taking the bike apart is because I noticed a rattle which seemed to be coming from around the gearbox. At idle, in neutral, there was no rattle, but when I gave it a bit of gas (still in neutral), there was a rattle -- sounded just like I imagine a loose spring moving through oil would. Does this sound like it might be the "clutch rattle" you're referring to? I noticed there are already shim washers on a couple of the springs. Can the loose springs be shimmed a bit more to tighten them up, or is replacement (as Paul suggests) necessary?

Michael

Are you now talking about shim washers on the pressire plate springs or are we still talking about shim washers on the backing plate springs. I really dont see how someone could safely and using good mechanicsl practices, could put shim washers into the space that contains the backing plate springs any how. It sounds like asking for more trouble.

[Anonymous]

Re: Clutch rattle

Are you now talking about shim washers on the pressire plate springs or are we still talking about shim washers on the backing plate springs. I really dont see how someone could safely and using good mechanicsl practices, could put shim washers into the space that contains the backing plate springs any how. It sounds like asking for more trouble.

It's the backing plate springs I was referring to. They do seem to be wedged in there pretty permanently, so I'm guessing the washers that are in there were installed by the manufacturer... Does this mean the clutch basket needs to be replaced if the backing plate springs are a bit loose, or is there a way to repair the original basket?

Just to clarify an earlier comment... I cannot rotate the two pieces of the basket independently, as several of the springs on the backing plate seem to be good and snug. Just a couple of them can rattle around a bit -- do you reckon a very small amount of play is enough to create noticeable engine noise?

Michael

[Anonymous]

My stock basket had 2 springs rattling around and 2 thicker ones that were tight. I actually thought that it was just the way they were made because the loose springs were also a bit shorter in adition to thinner. My clutch was working fine that way. I jusy replaced the basket and bsaking plate etc. to have a HD basket. I had anotherr stock basket and it was the same way. I dont know the facts on that shim washer bit though???????/

[silverhorse47]

Hello Paul,
Yup I just bet the guy with the thirty five years of daily experience rebuilding clutches DID recommend a back street bodge job. Sheesh...what is the point of discussing options in mechanics if the only option you think is worth following is the very best most expensive and possibly most over kill way to do something? I saved my bike from the wrecker...I guess if I rode a hot shot racer type highly modified bike I would view keeping it on the road in a more obsessive way.
In any case, I lengthened out these springs two seasons ago. The rattle completely stopped and I have had absolutely NO trouble with the repair. It would be impossible to nick the metal of the spring with a broad nosed chisel and if you had ever done this job (which I understand you will never never never risk) you would know that. It is perfectly understandable that you would choose to have your assorted clutch baskets made indestructible...but the solution I used, on the advice of a highly experienced non bodge type machinist/mechanic, has been very successful, sensible and economical. As such I see no point in bashing it.
Slopoke as far as the washers that are manufactured and provided for this very purpose...they are shaped like the washers that go under valve springs...they have a dome that fits up into the center of the spring. They are installed by compressing the spring with say a pair of needlenose vice grips and they just slip in. I am not sure whether or not this qualifies as good mechanical practice or not...but it is apparently a widely practiced repair.
Michael as far as the three springs still strong and three a little shortened...this was the case with mine too. Three of the springs were lighter and three heavier. The lighter springs engage first and the heavier engage after the light have absorbed a little of the torque. This explains why only some of them have been compressed beyond their ability to extend to their full length. I only had to spread the three light springs.
Good luck with your repair however you choose to proceed.
S.

[Anonymous]

Clutch basket

I called the bike shop and they told me it would be about $375 Canadian for a new clutch basket... Needless to say I don't want to spend that kind of money if I don't need to... I called a few automotive clutch shops, but no one will do work on a motorcycle clutch, anyway.

I think there are six springs on the back of my clutch basket -- three heavy and three lighter springs. When I shake the basket, a couple of the springs rattle.

What I noticed on the bike -- the reason I've got the clutch taken apart right now -- was that when I revved the engine in neutral, there was a rattle coming from the general area of the gearbox. When I let off the throttle, it would rattle until things slowed down, then it would stop rattling.

The rattle was fairly constant-frequency, and didn't change much with change in RPM, except that it wasn't there at all when idling. To me, this is consistent with a loose part which is rattling not because it's being banged against something, but because it's resonating as it is dragged through fluid -- that's why the loose clutch basket springs really jumped out at me.

The bike has 44,000 km on it. The clutch basket & plates look to be in great condition. Is it likely the loose springs are causing this rattle?

Thanks!

Michael

[Paul]

Hello Paul,
Yup I just bet the guy with the thirty five years of daily experience rebuilding clutches DID recommend a back street bodge job. Sheesh...what is the point of discussing options in mechanics if the only option you think is worth following is the very best most expensive and possibly most over kill way to do something? I saved my bike from the wrecker...I guess if I rode a hot shot racer type highly modified bike I would view keeping it on the road in a more obsessive way.
In any case, I lengthened out these springs two seasons ago. The rattle completely stopped and I have had absolutely NO trouble with the repair. It would be impossible to nick the metal of the spring with a broad nosed chisel and if you had ever done this job (which I understand you will never never never risk) you would know that. It is perfectly understandable that you would choose to have your assorted clutch baskets made indestructible...but the solution I used, on the advice of a highly experienced non bodge type machinist/mechanic, has been very successful, sensible and economical. As such I see no point in bashing it.
S.

Hey, no need to get into a tizzy. If a not very experienced person tries to hammer anything into a spring to spread the coils, they risk damaging the spring, if it then fails they could wipe out their clutch, crank & crankcase. The cheap repair is not so cheap then!
The clutch back plate is one of the very few weak points on a GS, if it is beefed up you have taken out a weak point.

I've been messing with bikes since I was 13 (1965) - & the bikes we had then you were always having to fix. I've done a lot of the bodges and you learn from your own mistakes.

As they say "Been there, done it, got the tee-shirt"