Cranking Issue - Hot Wire = Smoke

[chriswh86]

Hello,

Ive got an 83 1100E in my race car and I just put a new batterie in it today and went out to run the car. Well the black with white strip wire coming from the ign box to the starter motor was smoking and semi melted in a 1 inch area. So i stripped everything back adn make sure the wire was out in the open and the same thing happened.

Im not sure what would cause this to happen. The car cranks fine still but didnt fire probebly because i didnt get to crank long enough or the box is toast. Im just looking to see if anyone has any idea what might cause this

Again its the black with white stripe wire from the ign box to the top of the starter. Is something wrong with that wiring?

[paco13]

Black with white is usually common ground wire.
Sounds like Your main ground, Battery to chassis/engine, is not good causing the load to try and ground through the light guage wire overheating it.
either that or something is wired wrong.
I don't recall a black/white going to top of starter, could be wrong though. I think the starter body grounds itself and only needs pos from solinoid.

Oh yeah, ckeck that pos. wire going to starter motor isn't pinched or chaffed from the starter cover, have seen that happen before.

[SPARKSS]

Hello,

Ive got an 83 1100E in my race car and I just put a new batterie in it today and went out to run the car. Well the black with white strip wire coming from the ign box to the starter motor was smoking and semi melted in a 1 inch area. So i stripped everything back adn make sure the wire was out in the open and the same thing happened.

Im not sure what would cause this to happen. The car cranks fine still but didnt fire probebly because i didnt get to crank long enough or the box is toast. Im just looking to see if anyone has any idea what might cause this

Again its the black with white stripe wire from the ign box to the top of the starter. Is something wrong with that wiring?

More questions than answers Chris - starting with what it is that you're calling the ignition box? If indeed it is the electronic ignition for the engine, and the wire in question is perhaps a 12 volt feed, then it would stand to reason that either the wire is bad (which you probably ruled out) or the "ignition box" circuit being fed by this wire is drawing too much current.
With an accurate schematic I'll be glad to offer some much better help.

[chriswh86]

Ok thank you for the reply paco13 ill have to look over the other wires. Can anyone chime in, in regards to ignition box wiring, starter wiring and grounds and engine grounds. I belive my starter (cant remember for sure, not at home) has a post on the top for a small wire, (the one that is melting) and its main battery supply.

If someone could chime in it would be great. I belive the wire off the small post on the starter is yellow (i have got the black/white from the ign box to a butt connector then it changes to a yellow wire to the small post on teh starter.

Chris,

[chriswh86]

SPARKSS ill do up a diagram for you as best i can recall as im at work now. Give me a little bit and ill upload a diagram for you

[chriswh86]

SPARKSS -> please find a link to a wiring diagram of the wire in question below. Hopefully this helps you, let me know though

Chris,

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a180/knight202/wiring.jpg

[paco13]

there should only be 1 post on starter motor and that should have a heavy wire coming from starter relay.
The starter relay will/should have a yellow/green wire that goes to starter button, along with the wire mentioned above to starter and another to Battery Positive.
Black/white is ground. The ignition box should not have anything to do with the starter circuit.

[chriswh86]

hmmm this is wierd as i never touched the wiring since it ran last, something is fishy. But i will have to have a look, im thinking something was tampered with. So the black/white should just run to a ground like a bolt.

[paco13]

Well, I don't know how you're car was wired, but on the bikes the black and white is common ground, it can go straight to ground but usually it goes into the harness and all the various B/W wires from different lights/ acc. etc. are spliced together and then go to ground, frame and/or batt. neg.. The battery ground is usually bolted to the engine case.

[SPARKSS]

Well, I don't know how you're car was wired, but on the bikes the black and white is common ground, it can go straight to ground but usually it goes into the harness and all the various B/W wires from different lights/ acc. etc. are spliced together and then go to ground, frame and/or batt. neg.. The battery ground is usually bolted to the engine case.

This could be good info and might indicate that the starter has lost or is losing it's ground connection (loose or corroded)......in which case, if the wire in question is merely going to a ground on the "ignition box" then it may be trying to crank THROUGH this wire (or partially).....seen this sort of burn up many times on cars 'n trucks over the years.

I see your diagram Chris.....but it doesn't tell me anything more than your post did. A schematic would be most helpful (to me).

[chriswh86]

Hello Guys, I feel really stupid, once i got home and really looked at the bike I noticed the Black/White wire out of the ign box runs for a length of about 6 inches and then goes into a female slide connector and then it turns into a male slide connector and goes into a yellow wire that runs to the ground location close to the starter.

** ADDED IN: I opened the kill switch so that 12volts was avalible to all areas of my car and the area of wiring that was getting hot and smoking was normal. After pushing the start button for a quick 2 seconds it got really hot and smoky. **

However, i still have the sizzling wire problem. So the black/white wire out of the ign box isnt touching any metal its basically in the open. the area (1 1/2") peice that is getting hot/ sizzling/ smoking is a part of the old black/white line still and its out in mid air. So id like to get more feed back if possible on new ideas as to why this may be? Im puzzled at this time as im very tired and off to bed but id like to get some input for things to look at when im up.

At quick glance, i dont see any other wires fraid and shorting out anywhere.

Sparkss, ill try to get a schem done when i get up if there isnt things for me to check, but im pretty tired, and do appreciate your replys though

Thanks guys hopefully some feedback comes.

Chris,

[Steve]

I think part of the problem here is terminology. :shock:

Chris, what is it that you are calling the "ignition box"? And what are you calling the "starter"? Based on your description of wires coming out of it, it sounds like you are describing the starter solenoid, not the starter itelf. The starter lives sideways, under the chrome hump that is below and behind cylinders 1&2. It only has one wire attached to it. The wire might be red or black, and will be about 1/4" in diameter. The starter solenoid is a module that is (usually) attached to the battery box. It has a section that is about 1.5" in diameter, the top of it is more square, the whole thing is about 2.5" high. it will have two large wires bolted to the top. There will also be a smaller wire soldered to the top and may also have a small black and white wire like the one you are describing. The solenoid does not start the bike. It is just a remote-control switch that turns on the starter when you push the start button. The ignition box is a box that is about 4" x 5" x 1.5", and is usually behind the airbox, near the battery.

From your description, it sounds like the ground wire on your solenoid is heating up. Normally, there is not enough current going through that wire to do any damage, so it sounds like you have internal problems in your solenoid.

Here is a test you can do. If this sounds like we are talking about the same device, turn the ignition key on. Use an old screwdriver, short across the two large terminals on the top of the solenoid. Yes, there will be a spark. The starter should turn and the engine should start. If that is what happens, but the black/white wire still smokes when you push the starter button, you need a new solenoid. New ones from a dealer or other supplier can get rather expensive, so go to Lowe's or Home Depot, get one for a garden tractor, it will be about $15 or less. Chances are it will even use the same bolt holes.

.

[chriswh86]

Ive got a different starter solenoid in my car, which does feed the starter a 1/4 inch line. the only line in question is the ground from that small black ignition box that i have running to the motors ground that is located close to the starter

[chriswh86]

update: I disconnected the ground wire from the elec box to the motor ground and the car fired up with no smokey wire issues. I then touched teh lead coming out of the box to a ground point and the wire did not get hot or anything. It would be my guess that the stretch of wire coming from the motor ground has an issue....